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[Music]

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congratulations YouTube you did it you

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wore me down and you sucked me back in I

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have too many subscribers here just to

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walk away entirely especially with no

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alternative that truly stacks up and so

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many copycat channels uploading my shows

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for me anyway but we can't forget the th

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C's account here is on thin ice and so

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the YouTube version of the show has to

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be prefaced with this little PSA only to

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say that episodes that contain the kinds

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of themes that have been regularly

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banned on YouTube will not appear here

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and even with that precaution there's

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already enough in the archive to get us

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removed so remember that the higher side

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chats could be banned or put in timeout

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again at any time and I won't be able to

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tell you guys about it so if you feel

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like it's been too long since you've

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heard from me here on this digital

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dystopian draconian data-mining monster

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of a police state seeking platform your

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first step should be to check the higher

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side chats calm for the latest shows

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alright alright enjoy embrace yourself

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because you're about to dive into

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another free first hour episode of the

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higher side chats and we just want to

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let you know that whether you're looking

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for a companion through your paranoid

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insomnia entertaining yourself through

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one of life's mundane activities or

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trying to ward off the internal scream

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to all those sad smothered Souls around

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the office THC is here and you should

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know that every episode of the higher

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side chats has an entire second hour

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commercial free which means you'll

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[Music]

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the planets puppet-masters on my shirt

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we have a plan it's clearly maybe

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something there beyond the realm of man

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till we've thoroughly tested every last

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clothes just did you find the more you

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think you know much you really do where

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were we

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see we know the lying to us just don't

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know what to green where would we be

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without

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okay car wouldn't come alright higher

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side shatters when we dig into the

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details of many subjects that are

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generally taken for granted we find a

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great deal of manipulation half-truths

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and faulty premises in which entire

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fields are sometimes based and this goes

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for an increasingly large chunk of

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history and science materialism

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Darwinism the Apollo moon missions

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Columbus discovering America mass

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shootings 9/11 the cover-up of exotic

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technology and alternative fuel sources

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genuine medicine historic timelines and

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maybe even some major elements of our

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earthly system itself everybody draws

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their lines differently but these are

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just some of the examples we've examined

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in the past that actually encompass huge

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portions of popular worldviews and to

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see through even just a few of them

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leads one to reflect on not only what

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else we take for granted that could

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possibly be concocted by the capstone

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cabal but just how powerful and

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all-encompassing are the nefarious view

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what kind of world am I in are we as

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blissfully ignorant of our true

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situation as the cattle grazing on the

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farm

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well when the big club goes back further

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than we can trace our own family lines

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and we're forced to go through the

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brainwashing education system that has

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been cooked up by those very same

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untrustworthy tyrants good luck getting

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it all worked out as the theme song says

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we know they're lying to us we just

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don't know to what degree well today

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we're blowing the barn doors right off

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the hinges and torching every sacred cow

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left inside because today's guest John

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Lebon pushes the needle firmly into the

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red as he tackles some of what seemed to

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be the most controversial and tightly

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held so-called truths out there John is

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a self-described real skeptic from

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Australia just asking questions about

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what we take for granted

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he runs John the bong calm as well as a

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popular YouTube channel and I think this

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is going to be a pretty wild ride the

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controversial question asker the full

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spectrum skeptic and conspiratorial

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Thunder from Down Under

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jlb welcome to the higher side what a

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fantastic introduction

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thank you very much Greg for having me

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and yeah let's see where this goes I do

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cover a lot of topics on my website and

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on my youtube channel so this could go

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in any direction but I've been looking

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forward to it all week so thank you very

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much for having me on the show

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yeah man you got it I'm really looking

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forward to it too we kind of got hooked

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up as I was digging more into what we

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could call the history hoax and

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alternative timelines and just looking

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at how much of that could have been

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fabricated and as I got to your site I

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found that you get into quite a few

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other areas that maybe I'm not so into

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and that's okay but broadly speaking I

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think we share a lot in common people

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should re-examine everything we take for

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granted we shouldn't build our

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worldviews on premises that are tied to

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deceptive organizations and really

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before people defend something they hold

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dear they should know more about where

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it really comes from and oftentimes

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things are just beliefs instilled from

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the school system and reinforced by

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Hollywood but I guess before we dive

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into the history hopes which I think is

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the overarching thing here I thought a

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good way to start would be for the

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unfamiliar listeners to maybe get a feel

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for your overall perspective by walking

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us up your hoax hierarchy a bit it could

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be alright with it yeah let's talk about

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the hoax hierarchy this is something

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that seems to draw a lot of people to

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the YouTube channel into the website

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basically what I did was a couple of

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years ago I sat down and I thought if I

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was to go through the different things

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that I think are hoaxes or that there

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may be some deception involved some of

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them may be more significant than others

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and so I started drawing up a schematic

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from the what I called the baby hoaxes

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right through to the Grand Daddy hoax

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and the way that it worked out was it

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kind of was easiest to visualize as a

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triangle so down the bottom I've got a

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bunch of major media events that I

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believe our hoaxes and I'm not sure how

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much your audience likes to discuss

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these things but there are events such

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as say Sandy Hook or the Boston bombings

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which if you look at some of the photo

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or video evidence

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from the events they're highly

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suspicious mm-hmm and that was actually

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how I got into conspiracy culture maybe

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four or five years ago but subsequent to

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that I've learned that these major media

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events as significant as they are

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they're actually not as significant as

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perhaps some of the other deceptions

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that I've learnt about

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and so what I did was I just drew up

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this schematic and I called it the hoax

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hierarchy and my idea wasn't to convince

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people that what I think of the big

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hoaxes are more important than what I

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think of they're less important hoaxes

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it's more of a way to try to

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conceptualize what affects that some of

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these deceptions have on our minds and

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on our lifestyles and so I'm happy to

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talk with you today about any of the

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hoaxes on that hoax hierarchy and if

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you're interested to explain to you why

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I think some of those things are hoaxes

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because a lot of them they are

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controversial to some people some of the

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things that I'm saying are hoaxes

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they're going to find bad aggravating

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for me to sit here and say that for

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example history parts of it may be a

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hoax I do understand that that's going

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to come across as a little bit

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disconcerting to people but hopefully

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they can give us a chance here today

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Greg and I can explain why every single

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one of those items on that hoax

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hierarchy is in my opinion a hoax for

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sure man and by the nature of it I think

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most people would be on board with the

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bottom and as we go up we would probably

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lose some people along the way that's

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just the nature of these types of rabbit

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holes but we've been doing this a long

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long time and I think most people

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consider things like 9/11 or the Boston

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bombing Sandy Hook Aurora the whole bin

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Laden thing the Apollo missions a lot of

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the things you have in the baby toddler

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and Kitty levels I'm pretty sure we've

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digested enough there to be on board

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with that and if we were to get to maybe

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those middle levels I mean I don't even

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want to put out a specific thing I guess

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what do you get to those teeny and Kitty

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levels what do you think are the kind of

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the most polarizing things that you

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think you can make the best case for all

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right then so let's talk about some of

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those teeny hoaxes but before we do just

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to make sure that people are on board

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with us say the baby hoax level I've got

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Boston bombings and Sandy Hook and these

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kinds of things and you might remember

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that a couple of years ago there was the

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Isis beheading serial show on TV so what

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they were doing on the news was they

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were saying that Isis is

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boogieman terrorist group had captured

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these captives and are going to behead

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them and they even had each behead 'i

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call out the next person who was going

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to be beheaded so it was like a TV

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serial i'm not sure if you remember this

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but it was to me clearly almost like a

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comical fictional boogeyman TV show hmm

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but it wasn't portrayed as a fictional

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shoulders portrayed as real and so I've

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got that down there at the baby hoax

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level as well so I think that some of

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what was shown on the news it is clearly

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fabricated including a lot of what we're

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told about their terrorists in the

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boogeyman and that kind of thing and

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then up from the baby hoax level of God

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the toddler hoaxes and those are some er

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bin Laden and the Apollo missions and

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already here we might lose some people

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so look at Osama bin Laden regardless of

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what people think about what happened on

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9/11 to me Osama bin Laden he is a

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fictional boogeyman if you look at the

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footage of him there's plenty of YouTube

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videos that people have recorded from

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CNN or from any air news agency and

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they're very uploaded into YouTube so we

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can see what was being shown about Osama

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bin Laden in the 1990s in the 2000s and

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I look at this footage and he too comes

274
00:11:25,310 --> 00:11:22,740
across as a fictional boogeyman he comes

275
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across as the kind of character who

276
00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:28,790
would be in like a 1950s or 1960s

277
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,190
escapade where the protagonists has to

278
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take down the boogeyman that's how Osama

279
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:37,260
bin Laden is shown to me and so I tried

280
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to look further into the Osama bin Laden

281
00:11:45,860 --> 00:11:42,930
story and I'm not convinced that this

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person was a real person I think I

283
00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:47,880
summer bin Laden regardless of what we

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00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:50,640
think of 9/11 Osama bin Laden strikes me

285
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:53,270
as he may have been a fictional

286
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boogeyman Gregan I know that will come

287
00:12:01,280 --> 00:11:58,830
across as controversial but if we look

288
00:12:03,650 --> 00:12:01,290
at some of the texts that have been

289
00:12:05,390 --> 00:12:03,660
given through the masses that I think

290
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might be what you might call truth in

291
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:08,610
plain sight we know that say in 1984 by

292
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:11,850
George Orwell Goldstein is a fictional

293
00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:13,410
boogeyman and his

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on the telescreen and the masses are

295
00:12:21,139 --> 00:12:18,750
welcomed to have their two minutes of

296
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hate you know everybody hates Goldstein

297
00:12:25,579 --> 00:12:23,220
they hate the boogeyman well isn't that

298
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:25,589
what Osama bin Laden was for us he was

299
00:12:30,439 --> 00:12:28,230
the boogeyman on TV who we were

300
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:30,449
encouraged to project our hatred onto

301
00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:32,490
but we only ever see him on the

302
00:12:37,999 --> 00:12:35,459
telescreen our entire relationship with

303
00:12:40,490 --> 00:12:38,009
Osama bin Laden is via the mainstream

304
00:12:42,619 --> 00:12:40,500
media none of us have ever met him none

305
00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:42,629
of us will ever meet him we're told now

306
00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:43,470
that he's dead

307
00:12:49,189 --> 00:12:46,680
he is purely a representation on our

308
00:12:51,410 --> 00:12:49,199
television screens and in our news pages

309
00:12:53,809 --> 00:12:51,420
and then you've got the Apollo missions

310
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:53,819
which I would hope Greek I'm hoping that

311
00:12:59,329 --> 00:12:56,220
most of your listeners familiar with the

312
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,339
fact the obvious fact that that was an

313
00:13:02,509 --> 00:13:01,680
entirely fabricated event as well I

314
00:13:05,809 --> 00:13:02,519
think so

315
00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:05,819
nobody went to the moon 1969 through

316
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:08,579
1972 and the footage that we were shown

317
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:10,290
of people playing golf on the moon and

318
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:12,689
driving dune buggies and even speaking

319
00:13:17,749 --> 00:13:15,930
with the President on the phone again to

320
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:17,759
me this isn't just that we've been

321
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:20,370
deceived but the deception is comical

322
00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:23,130
it's almost like a comic book style I

323
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,980
load a nonsense to me so if we just

324
00:13:28,309 --> 00:13:27,360
stopped with a toddler level there Greg

325
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:28,319
would you say that most of your

326
00:13:32,179 --> 00:13:30,689
listeners would agree with at least the

327
00:13:35,179 --> 00:13:32,189
Apollo missions and hopefully the Osama

328
00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:35,189
bin Laden element as well or at least be

329
00:13:38,929 --> 00:13:37,500
open-minded to the possibility that it

330
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:38,939
wasn't that Osama bin Laden was framed

331
00:13:44,019 --> 00:13:41,490
he was actually created for the purpose

332
00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:44,029
of framing so far would you say that

333
00:13:49,129 --> 00:13:46,920
this isn't too controversial just yet

334
00:13:51,439 --> 00:13:49,139
not at all I think people are pretty on

335
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:51,449
board at least opened the possibility on

336
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,569
some of these things for example you

337
00:13:58,009 --> 00:13:56,639
move up a level you got 9/11 no planes

338
00:14:00,799 --> 00:13:58,019
we don't need to spend a ton of time on

339
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:00,809
this but I think that what's relevant is

340
00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:02,850
that it was a fabricated event it was a

341
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,189
false flag the building's were taken

342
00:14:09,379 --> 00:14:06,959
down I think the buildings were built to

343
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,389
be taken down as part of a ritual later

344
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,000
and that's a big thing but I think

345
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:14,639
sometimes the people who are woke so to

346
00:14:19,850 --> 00:14:17,250
speak end up devolving their arguments

347
00:14:22,879 --> 00:14:19,860
into what was at nano-thermite was it a

348
00:14:24,980 --> 00:14:22,889
mini-nuke were there planes there was it

349
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:24,990
a direct energy weapon you know I have

350
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:26,690
the place that I'd put my bet

351
00:14:31,450 --> 00:14:29,360
but I think what's relevant is that it's

352
00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:31,460
not as projected and we've been lied to

353
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:34,030
by the people that are our so-called

354
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:37,310
protectors I mean after that I really

355
00:14:41,470 --> 00:14:39,250
don't care what a person thinks

356
00:14:42,940 --> 00:14:41,480
necessarily I'm just not hung up on that

357
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:42,950
as long as they're on board with the

358
00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:44,810
fact that it was a fabrication I mean

359
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:47,150
because that's really to me the thing

360
00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:49,850
that's hardest to accept but perhaps not

361
00:14:53,830 --> 00:14:52,280
but I guess just take us up the pyramid

362
00:14:57,580 --> 00:14:53,840
and give us some of the cliff notes up

363
00:14:59,380 --> 00:14:57,590
until like our main topic Oh glue I'm so

364
00:15:01,810 --> 00:14:59,390
glad to hear you say that that you think

365
00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:01,820
that the towers were built to be brought

366
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:04,550
down because when I first heard that

367
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:06,290
theory put forward I thought how could

368
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:08,690
that possibly be why would they do such

369
00:15:13,510 --> 00:15:10,430
a thing why would they build these

370
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:13,520
gigantic towers two of them in the

371
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:16,250
middle of New York and bring them down

372
00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:18,050
on TV why would they do such a thing

373
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:20,390
whereas now it's quite obvious to me

374
00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:23,150
that those towers were in fact built to

375
00:15:26,380 --> 00:15:24,830
be brought down as part of a big ritual

376
00:15:29,020 --> 00:15:26,390
as you described it so I'm glad we're on

377
00:15:32,020 --> 00:15:29,030
the same page on that one so if we move

378
00:15:34,990 --> 00:15:32,030
up to the teeny hoax level I've got five

379
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:35,000
things listed there and I would ask the

380
00:15:40,210 --> 00:15:37,730
listeners to at least hear us out before

381
00:15:42,490 --> 00:15:40,220
they get too frustrated by what I have

382
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:42,500
to say let's just go through them and

383
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:44,450
see if maybe there's some good reason to

384
00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:45,770
think that maybe we've been deceived

385
00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:47,870
about some of these things had on the

386
00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:50,080
teeny hoax level I've got dinosaurs

387
00:15:58,660 --> 00:15:55,700
atoms war evolution and heliocentrism

388
00:16:01,960 --> 00:15:58,670
and I am suggesting then each of those

389
00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:01,970
five things we may have been deceived

390
00:16:06,340 --> 00:16:04,790
about so you choose one of those five

391
00:16:07,450 --> 00:16:06,350
Greg you tell me which of those five you

392
00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:07,460
think your listeners would be most

393
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:09,800
interested to hear more about and let's

394
00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:12,770
go from there and this is the kind of

395
00:16:18,130 --> 00:16:14,510
the middle of the pyramid folks I think

396
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:18,140
don't forget that I think evolution

397
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:19,850
people would be pretty on board with

398
00:16:25,620 --> 00:16:21,770
there's major deceptions there we've

399
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:25,630
covered heliocentrism I think at nauseam

400
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:28,730
I'm kind of interested in why you put

401
00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:30,490
war on there

402
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:33,640
okay so you and I are roughly the same

403
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:36,250
age we're both in our 30s right mm-hmm

404
00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:38,170
so we've been raised to believe that

405
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:39,940
about a hundred years ago there was a

406
00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:42,970
gigantic world war where millions of

407
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:45,430
people died and then a couple of decades

408
00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:48,490
after that there was another world war

409
00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:51,550
where millions of people time millions

410
00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:53,560
of innocent people died and that was

411
00:16:57,630 --> 00:16:55,300
what happened you know it is horrible

412
00:17:00,060 --> 00:16:57,640
calamity now I'm not saying that those

413
00:17:02,490 --> 00:17:00,070
events didn't happen but what I am

414
00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:02,500
saying is that one day I decided to look

415
00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:05,470
into well what is the evidence that all

416
00:17:08,430 --> 00:17:06,550
of these people died

417
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:08,440
you know we're given these figures these

418
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:10,480
death counts of tens of millions of

419
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:12,610
people and maybe tens of millions of

420
00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:14,530
people did die I'm not sure I mean it

421
00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:16,839
could be possible but when I started

422
00:17:20,660 --> 00:17:18,370
looking into the evidence what I found

423
00:17:23,850 --> 00:17:20,670
was that it was largely based on

424
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:23,860
secondhand accounts it was largely based

425
00:17:29,670 --> 00:17:26,050
on aggregate numbers that were given by

426
00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:29,680
official outlets and in terms of sort of

427
00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:31,000
empirical evidence for these deaths

428
00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:33,190
there's really not much that the average

429
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:35,860
person can see to verify the claims that

430
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,890
are being made there are grave sites in

431
00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:40,240
various parts of Europe where you can

432
00:17:44,610 --> 00:17:42,520
still go and see you know where people

433
00:17:47,010 --> 00:17:44,620
have been buried as a result of dying in

434
00:17:48,450 --> 00:17:47,020
the war and what have you so it seems to

435
00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:48,460
me as though people did die and there

436
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:50,500
was a major event but in terms of the

437
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:51,850
numbers that were given week even

438
00:17:56,370 --> 00:17:54,550
numbers of millions and millions and

439
00:17:59,880 --> 00:17:56,380
millions of people all around the world

440
00:18:03,150 --> 00:17:59,890
dying in this major calamity and I

441
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:03,160
wonder how much of that is legitimate

442
00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:06,370
and if we fast-forward through to today

443
00:18:11,820 --> 00:18:09,190
people my age and people your age well

444
00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:11,830
we've been raised two generations or

445
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:15,670
more after World War two so unless we

446
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:19,030
have a strong faith in history we don't

447
00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:21,040
really have much reason to take anything

448
00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:24,280
we're told on face value it's either you

449
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:25,750
have faith in what you're told

450
00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:28,960
or you don't and I no longer have faith

451
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:30,310
in what I'm told

452
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:33,010
so I've got the war hoax they're not

453
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:34,570
because I'm saying that nothing has ever

454
00:18:38,340 --> 00:18:35,770
happened or nothing bad has ever

455
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:38,350
happened but once I started looking into

456
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,910
it I saw that there's not as much

457
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:42,160
evidence for some of these claims as I

458
00:18:45,690 --> 00:18:43,840
thought there was in there

459
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,700
if we look at more recent Wars such as

460
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:47,440
the Gulf War and what's been happening

461
00:18:52,140 --> 00:18:50,140
in the Middle East I find a lot of that

462
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:52,150
to be very dubious as well and I can

463
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:54,490
give you some examples sure if you look

464
00:18:58,890 --> 00:18:57,130
at the bombing of Baghdad there's still

465
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,900
footage of it on YouTube to this day you

466
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:00,400
can see that footage that somebody has

467
00:19:05,159 --> 00:19:02,770
uploaded from the the official news

468
00:19:07,260 --> 00:19:05,169
broadcasts at the time I would encourage

469
00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:07,270
all of your listeners just to one day

470
00:19:12,149 --> 00:19:10,120
look up bombing of Baghdad watch it for

471
00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:12,159
yourself and just see if you notice

472
00:19:17,389 --> 00:19:14,590
anything about the footage because when

473
00:19:21,570 --> 00:19:17,399
I watch that footage I think to myself

474
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:21,580
this does look again comical this

475
00:19:26,159 --> 00:19:23,679
doesn't look like a real bombing at all

476
00:19:28,289 --> 00:19:26,169
this kind of looks like a pyrotechnics

477
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:28,299
display it almost looks like a fireworks

478
00:19:33,269 --> 00:19:30,490
display that's being presented to us and

479
00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:33,279
we're just supposed to accept that this

480
00:19:38,639 --> 00:19:36,460
is a real war and a real bombing now if

481
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:38,649
people still believe that Saddam Hussein

482
00:19:44,399 --> 00:19:41,440
was truly an enemy of the United States

483
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:44,409
I can completely understand why they

484
00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:46,390
would think that this was a real bombing

485
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:48,940
all the Americans went into Iraq and

486
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:51,250
they were bombing Saddam Hussein because

487
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:53,049
they wanted to take him out I can

488
00:19:55,649 --> 00:19:54,250
understand what people would believe

489
00:19:58,350 --> 00:19:55,659
that narrative I used to believe that

490
00:20:00,480 --> 00:19:58,360
narrative but as you progress through

491
00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:00,490
thinking about some of these topics and

492
00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:02,380
the process that I call deprogramming

493
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:05,320
you start to question well hold on the

494
00:20:10,049 --> 00:20:07,390
people who run the show do they really

495
00:20:12,659 --> 00:20:10,059
have enemies with Saddam Hussein really

496
00:20:15,299 --> 00:20:12,669
against the American establishment or

497
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,309
was he a puppet dictator who was put

498
00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:17,200
there because if he was a puppet

499
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,990
dictator then why would the US have any

500
00:20:25,019 --> 00:20:22,480
reason to bomb him to try and take him

501
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:25,029
out wouldn't he be in on the whole thing

502
00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:27,520
and then people trying to tell me I know

503
00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:29,320
Iraq really was against the Americans

504
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,000
they were really at war with each other

505
00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:34,240
Iraq was a separatist state and they

506
00:20:38,639 --> 00:20:36,520
wanted to start selling their oil in in

507
00:20:40,889 --> 00:20:38,649
a different currency they wanted to

508
00:20:42,930 --> 00:20:40,899
fight the petro dollar and again I used

509
00:20:44,490 --> 00:20:42,940
to believe all of that until I tried to

510
00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:44,500
look for actual evidence that this was

511
00:20:49,769 --> 00:20:47,740
the case and I couldn't find any and a

512
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:49,779
country like Iraq you could just look at

513
00:20:54,659 --> 00:20:52,990
it on a map it's a fictional country

514
00:20:56,430 --> 00:20:54,669
from the outset it was created after

515
00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:56,440
World War Two that's why they have these

516
00:21:00,170 --> 00:20:57,240
straight line

517
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:00,180
as their borders it was created after

518
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:02,730
the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and

519
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:04,890
the Ottoman Empire was broken up we're

520
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:07,200
told by the establishment so how could

521
00:21:12,110 --> 00:21:09,210
the establishment create countries like

522
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:12,120
Iraq and then lose control of them it

523
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:14,850
doesn't make sense to me so if this is

524
00:21:18,290 --> 00:21:16,110
the first time as someone's heard

525
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:18,300
someone suggest these kinds of things

526
00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:20,310
I completely understand Greek why they

527
00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:23,430
sound too out there it must sound to

528
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:25,980
people like I'm almost making this up

529
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:28,260
for the sake of being like a shock jock

530
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:29,970
or something but all I'm trying to

531
00:21:33,610 --> 00:21:31,080
encourage people to do is to think about

532
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:33,620
why do we believe what we're told

533
00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:37,140
take for instance World War one here in

534
00:21:41,030 --> 00:21:39,060
Australia we as children we're

535
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:41,040
encouraged once a year to buy these

536
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:43,770
little red poppies and to wear them and

537
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:45,510
have this minute of silence on

538
00:21:50,420 --> 00:21:47,700
Remembrance Day for all of these people

539
00:21:52,250 --> 00:21:50,430
who've died so as little children who

540
00:21:55,670 --> 00:21:52,260
are you know children are very empathic

541
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:55,680
and it's easy for their emotions to be

542
00:21:59,960 --> 00:21:57,810
manipulated well these little children

543
00:22:02,300 --> 00:21:59,970
who have done nothing wrong to anyone in

544
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:02,310
a ritual once per year they're

545
00:22:06,830 --> 00:22:04,140
encouraged to wear these little red

546
00:22:09,470 --> 00:22:06,840
poppies and for a minute to stand in

547
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:09,480
silence and to remember all of these

548
00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:12,510
dead people they have never met now if

549
00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:14,880
you go to school for say 12 years then

550
00:22:19,070 --> 00:22:16,500
that means that on at least twelve

551
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:19,080
occasions you've had to stand there in

552
00:22:24,410 --> 00:22:21,330
silence with all of the people around

553
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:24,420
you in you have to be solemn and you

554
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:27,360
have to remember the deaths of people

555
00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:29,700
you've never met and I'm suggesting to

556
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:31,560
you Greg and I'm suggesting to all of

557
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:34,110
you listeners maybe that kind of

558
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,810
conditioning on us during school has a

559
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:38,640
far more profound effects than we

560
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:41,010
realize and maybe that's why when

561
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:42,960
someone comes along and says yeah but

562
00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:44,520
what's the evidence that millions of

563
00:22:48,890 --> 00:22:46,830
people died we have a natural aversion

564
00:22:50,270 --> 00:22:48,900
to what they're saying because we've had

565
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,280
all these conditioning all this

566
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:52,080
emotional manipulation while we're

567
00:22:56,420 --> 00:22:55,110
growing up we're so convinced there must

568
00:22:58,550 --> 00:22:56,430
have been these millions of people dead

569
00:23:02,000 --> 00:22:58,560
because we've already mourned for them

570
00:23:04,790 --> 00:23:02,010
but in terms of actual evidence no we

571
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:04,800
were never given any other then second

572
00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:06,930
and third hair in the counts from the

573
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:09,470
very Authority and establishment that

574
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:11,330
at other times we say that we challenge

575
00:23:15,490 --> 00:23:13,070
them and we question them but on these

576
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,500
kinds of topics we won't even open our

577
00:23:21,399 --> 00:23:17,840
minds to the possibility that maybe we

578
00:23:23,019 --> 00:23:21,409
have been deceived mm-hmm well I think

579
00:23:25,299 --> 00:23:23,029
you make some good points man and I

580
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:25,309
chose war out of that category just

581
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:27,710
because I felt like I knew more or less

582
00:23:32,529 --> 00:23:30,320
what you would say about dinosaurs or

583
00:23:35,019 --> 00:23:32,539
atomic weapons or evolution or

584
00:23:37,299 --> 00:23:35,029
heliocentrism just because those are

585
00:23:39,070 --> 00:23:37,309
kind of more defined arguments and war

586
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:39,080
is kind of a big thing also most of

587
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,610
history is based on war and that's the

588
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:43,279
overarching topic and I don't want to be

589
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:45,919
too argumentative that's not my style I

590
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:47,840
do genuinely respect your thought

591
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:50,480
process call it skepticism or the

592
00:23:56,590 --> 00:23:52,610
Trivium or a personal application of it

593
00:23:59,379 --> 00:23:56,600
but to default to hoax on anything that

594
00:24:03,190 --> 00:23:59,389
you can't personally prove just seems

595
00:24:05,139 --> 00:24:03,200
too rigid or simplistic to me because

596
00:24:07,299 --> 00:24:05,149
there will be some things you can't

597
00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:07,309
prove that our conventional ideas I mean

598
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:09,320
it's kind of ironic but you realize

599
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:11,090
there's a lot of people using your same

600
00:24:15,460 --> 00:24:13,129
type of logic to doubt the existence of

601
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:15,470
Australia itself right you know it's

602
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:16,610
very interesting that you say that

603
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:19,279
because in the preparation for this call

604
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:20,960
I went back and listened to some of your

605
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:23,840
more recent podcasts and ER I saw that

606
00:24:26,769 --> 00:24:25,490
when you were chatting with Gordon white

607
00:24:28,690 --> 00:24:26,779
and that was a good call by the way I

608
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,700
enjoyed that you did mention that you

609
00:24:33,639 --> 00:24:30,559
were a little bit frustrated by

610
00:24:35,289 --> 00:24:33,649
conspiracy culture because lately people

611
00:24:39,310 --> 00:24:35,299
have been saying that the earth is flat

612
00:24:40,930 --> 00:24:39,320
or that Australia is a hoax and I hadn't

613
00:24:42,369 --> 00:24:40,940
actually heard the Australia hoax one

614
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:42,379
that one's interesting obviously I live

615
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:45,110
here in Australia so maybe I'm involved

616
00:24:49,419 --> 00:24:47,330
in some grand conspiracy to deceive the

617
00:24:52,269 --> 00:24:49,429
world about Australia but I think it's a

618
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,279
real place I'm here right now so I don't

619
00:24:56,830 --> 00:24:55,039
believe in the Australia hoax and as for

620
00:24:59,869 --> 00:24:56,840
flat earth I can understand people's

621
00:25:03,499 --> 00:24:59,879
frustration with that as well because

622
00:25:05,899 --> 00:25:03,509
I have released 50 videos okay in the

623
00:25:09,549 --> 00:25:05,909
space of a couple of years I released no

624
00:25:12,399 --> 00:25:09,559
less than 50 different YouTube videos

625
00:25:15,259 --> 00:25:12,409
debunking and critiquing the Flat Earth

626
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:15,269
so-called theory and it's not really a

627
00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:17,940
theory it's more of a conjecture or a

628
00:25:23,869 --> 00:25:19,769
fantasy that a lot of these people have

629
00:25:26,419 --> 00:25:23,879
that the earth is flat and unfortunately

630
00:25:28,849 --> 00:25:26,429
for me a lot of people assumed that I

631
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:28,859
was a flat earther because I used to

632
00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:30,089
host a show called the ball earth

633
00:25:35,439 --> 00:25:32,609
skeptic roundtable and this was back in

634
00:25:39,109 --> 00:25:35,449
2015 back when Flat Earth was just

635
00:25:41,059 --> 00:25:39,119
starting to become a theme on YouTube so

636
00:25:43,099 --> 00:25:41,069
I interviewed some of the biggest names

637
00:25:46,489 --> 00:25:43,109
in Flat Earth I interviewed mark Sargent

638
00:25:49,879 --> 00:25:46,499
I interviewed Eric Dubay Jerry nism

639
00:25:51,439 --> 00:25:49,889
wakie wakie a lot of the big names then

640
00:25:53,419 --> 00:25:51,449
and some of them are still big names

641
00:25:55,159 --> 00:25:53,429
today I interviewed them and what

642
00:25:57,199 --> 00:25:55,169
happened was that because I would

643
00:26:00,139 --> 00:25:57,209
describe myself as a ball earth skeptic

644
00:26:01,549 --> 00:26:00,149
and that was the name of the show and I

645
00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:01,559
was interviewing all of these leading

646
00:26:07,339 --> 00:26:03,659
flat-earthers a lot of people assumed

647
00:26:09,439 --> 00:26:07,349
that I too was a flat earther however

648
00:26:12,019 --> 00:26:09,449
what I was doing was asking some of

649
00:26:13,999 --> 00:26:12,029
these guys questions about basic

650
00:26:17,869 --> 00:26:14,009
problems that I see with the Flat Earth

651
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:17,879
belief system such as there are two pole

652
00:26:22,339 --> 00:26:20,129
stars okay there's a pole star in the

653
00:26:24,949 --> 00:26:22,349
north and there is a pole star here in

654
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:24,959
the south how can the Flat Earth belief

655
00:26:30,529 --> 00:26:27,809
system account for that or southern

656
00:26:32,989 --> 00:26:30,539
flights you can fly from South Africa to

657
00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:32,999
Australia in a space of about nine hours

658
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:35,940
and I know that because I did that back

659
00:26:39,309 --> 00:26:38,369
in 2010 on the way home from the Soccer

660
00:26:41,809 --> 00:26:39,319
World Cup

661
00:26:44,749 --> 00:26:41,819
so I would bring these problems up with

662
00:26:46,609 --> 00:26:44,759
these leading flat-earthers and they

663
00:26:49,159 --> 00:26:46,619
would either try to avoid answering the

664
00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:49,169
question or they would outright deny

665
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:52,169
what I was presenting as my evidence so

666
00:26:57,019 --> 00:26:54,569
in the case of the southern flights one

667
00:26:59,479 --> 00:26:57,029
of our guests live on the air we used to

668
00:27:01,369 --> 00:26:59,489
broadcast live I brought up this problem

669
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:01,379
of the southern hemisphere flights and

670
00:27:06,019 --> 00:27:04,049
he said to me that I can't have taken

671
00:27:08,569 --> 00:27:06,029
that flight because it doesn't exist and

672
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:08,579
I said well with the greatest of respect

673
00:27:13,550 --> 00:27:10,769
I think the flight does exist because

674
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:13,560
I've taken the flight and he said well

675
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:15,960
you must be mistaken so then I went and

676
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,210
got my itinerary which I had saved from

677
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:20,640
that trip I went and got it from my

678
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:22,170
little collection of things from the

679
00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:23,970
past I came back I sat down at the

680
00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:25,470
microphone this is all live on the air

681
00:27:30,380 --> 00:27:27,990
and I said here's my itinerary I could

682
00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:30,390
be making this up but let me tell you

683
00:27:34,270 --> 00:27:31,980
what I remember happening and what I've

684
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:34,280
got documentation to show happened and

685
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:37,740
still he didn't want to accept it now I

686
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:39,510
would have thought that because I was

687
00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:41,550
challenging some of these flat-earthers

688
00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:44,280
in their claims that people would be

689
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:46,470
able to see that I was not a flat

690
00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:49,770
earther and yet to this day I still have

691
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:52,230
people trying to say that I promoted

692
00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:54,090
Flat Earth or that I am a flat earther

693
00:27:59,330 --> 00:27:56,280
even though that's the complete opposite

694
00:28:01,250 --> 00:27:59,340
of what I was saying so I can completely

695
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:01,260
understand your frustration with this

696
00:28:06,380 --> 00:28:02,810
Flat Earth thing that has taken over

697
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:06,390
conspiracy culture I get it at the same

698
00:28:09,740 --> 00:28:07,860
time though I think if we try to say

699
00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:09,750
that anyone who questions things like

700
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,500
war or dinosaurs or even heliocentrism

701
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:16,080
itself if we say that any of those

702
00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:18,210
people who question these things are

703
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:19,950
falling into the same trap as flat

704
00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:22,260
earthers then that seems to me to be

705
00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:25,380
almost like a guilt by association or

706
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:27,000
throwing the baby out with the bathwater

707
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:30,510
I think if you do skepticism properly if

708
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:32,400
you have a proper methodological

709
00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:35,460
approach to the matter well you won't

710
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,780
arrive at Flat Earth because the

711
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,640
evidence goes against it but you need to

712
00:28:42,140 --> 00:28:40,320
be willing to look at the evidence and

713
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:42,150
you need to be willing to do the

714
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:44,850
research and so it was only through

715
00:28:49,610 --> 00:28:47,010
doing the research that I came to my

716
00:28:51,290 --> 00:28:49,620
current position which is that the

717
00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:51,300
heliocentric model that were given today

718
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:54,360
I do think it is fanciful but that

719
00:28:58,460 --> 00:28:55,650
doesn't mean that I accept Flat Earth

720
00:29:00,920 --> 00:28:58,470
and I consider myself to be one of the

721
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:00,930
leading Flat Earth skeptics in the world

722
00:29:05,150 --> 00:29:03,210
today so that's where I'm at with all of

723
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:05,160
this great guy I'm a skeptical person I

724
00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:07,080
take the time to look at the official

725
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:09,030
stories for some of these things and I'm

726
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:10,650
not rejecting them out of hand so if I

727
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:13,770
say war hoax I'm not saying that all war

728
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:17,130
is a hoax and you could say that maybe I

729
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:18,510
shouldn't use the word hoax then it's

730
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:20,310
too strong a word I can clearly

731
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:23,340
understand that but at the same time we

732
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:24,450
live in a world where people are

733
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:26,430
convinced of the most ridiculous things

734
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:27,120
the

735
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:28,440
cause of airconditioning through school

736
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:31,559
so to counteract that what do we say

737
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:34,559
that we say oh I'm a war questioner or

738
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:36,750
I'm a war skeptic but I think war might

739
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:38,880
be a deception well just using terms

740
00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:40,650
like war hoax it just cuts right through

741
00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:42,660
that and says right I am willing to say

742
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:44,790
that I think we've been deceived about

743
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:46,290
war right from the get-go

744
00:29:50,450 --> 00:29:48,120
if people don't like the use of the word

745
00:29:52,910 --> 00:29:50,460
hoax I understand that hopefully they

746
00:29:55,580 --> 00:29:52,920
can understand why I do that war hoax

747
00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:55,590
evolution hoax heliocentrism hoax it

748
00:29:58,580 --> 00:29:57,000
cuts right to the chase and it says look

749
00:29:59,000 --> 00:29:58,590
I'm willing to put my cards on the table

750
00:30:01,730 --> 00:29:59,010
here

751
00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:01,740
I no longer believe what I used to

752
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:03,270
believe and the reason for this is

753
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:05,700
because I've taken the time to look into

754
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:08,610
the official story and I do not find it

755
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:11,220
convincing and that's fair to say and

756
00:30:15,919 --> 00:30:14,340
I'm with you on the conventional model

757
00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:15,929
there's a lot of things that don't add

758
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:18,540
up when you start to pick at it so we're

759
00:30:21,980 --> 00:30:20,640
probably on the same page there and I'm

760
00:30:24,590 --> 00:30:21,990
glad you brought up that show with

761
00:30:26,660 --> 00:30:24,600
Gordon white because I've gotten a lot

762
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:26,670
of feedback from all sides of the

763
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:29,010
spectrum on how people feel about that

764
00:30:34,850 --> 00:30:31,620
and a lot of pushback and I think maybe

765
00:30:38,299 --> 00:30:34,860
some of the points I made them casually

766
00:30:41,090 --> 00:30:38,309
and maybe made them too strong but I

767
00:30:43,370 --> 00:30:41,100
think people misinterpreted what I was

768
00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:43,380
saying to a point which was really that

769
00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:45,929
when I grew up in this culture it was

770
00:30:50,930 --> 00:30:47,880
about trying to improve my own life

771
00:30:53,870 --> 00:30:50,940
about avoiding debt traps and achieving

772
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:53,880
economic fairness or escaping the cog in

773
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:56,640
the wheel lifestyle finding healthier

774
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:00,480
options and creating solutions away from

775
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,850
the weaponized food and water and now

776
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:04,559
cell phones that we have to deal with

777
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:06,450
you know things that can help us

778
00:31:11,810 --> 00:31:09,210
navigate to a better reality even if

779
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:11,820
it's just in our small circle and I'm

780
00:31:17,810 --> 00:31:15,120
not sure these other topics like atomic

781
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:17,820
weapons or dinosaurs or the Flat Earth

782
00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:19,679
I'm not sure they do that and I'm not

783
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:22,380
saying questioning has no merit of

784
00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:25,290
course I would never say that but I just

785
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:27,260
think it should be maybe measured and

786
00:31:32,419 --> 00:31:29,250
maybe it's gone a little bit off the

787
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:32,429
rails and maybe people are obsessing

788
00:31:38,150 --> 00:31:35,370
over things they can't control at the

789
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,160
expense of their own life and their own

790
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:40,200
health and making themselves a better

791
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:40,740
purse

792
00:31:45,769 --> 00:31:43,200
and it's not that all time is spent

793
00:31:47,539 --> 00:31:45,779
wisely either so it's not even fair to

794
00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:47,549
say you know you should spend your time

795
00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:49,830
more wisely because of course we have a

796
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,020
lot of time and it isn't all spent

797
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:54,720
wisely so that's of limited use to bring

798
00:32:00,560 --> 00:31:57,120
up but that's kind of where I was coming

799
00:32:01,789 --> 00:32:00,570
from on a lot of that stuff Gregor I can

800
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:01,799
clearly understand what you're saying

801
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:03,960
and I can relate to it and I can

802
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:05,850
empathize with it and you're correct

803
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:08,090
a lot of people whether it is flat earth

804
00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:10,860
already's Pizza Gate or any of these

805
00:32:14,269 --> 00:32:13,260
sorts of things a lot of people do let

806
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,279
it take over

807
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:16,799
maybe not their lives but their interest

808
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:19,770
in the alternative and so when I got

809
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:22,110
into all of this I was the same as you I

810
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,000
got into this thinking well I've been

811
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,159
deceived about things what else have I

812
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:28,080
been deceived about and there was a

813
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:29,460
reason I wanted to do this because I

814
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:31,710
wanted to improve my life if I have been

815
00:32:35,090 --> 00:32:33,690
deceived about something I want to know

816
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:35,100
what also been deceived about and

817
00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:37,770
hopefully improve my life as a result

818
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,169
and so in the last couple of years for

819
00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:42,240
example I've improved my diet

820
00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:44,580
significantly because I realized I had

821
00:32:48,919 --> 00:32:46,830
been deceived about nutrition and health

822
00:32:50,779 --> 00:32:48,929
right and I've improved my exercise

823
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:50,789
regime because I had been deceived about

824
00:32:56,269 --> 00:32:54,240
the ideal exercise regime so now I sit

825
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:56,279
here at the age of 31 and I mean

826
00:33:00,110 --> 00:32:57,840
significantly better shape and

827
00:33:02,419 --> 00:33:00,120
significantly better health and better

828
00:33:05,510 --> 00:33:02,429
strength and fitness and flexibility

829
00:33:07,370 --> 00:33:05,520
then I was five or six years ago when I

830
00:33:09,769 --> 00:33:07,380
was in my mid-20s and that's not because

831
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:09,779
I was a couch potato in my mid-20s I

832
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:11,970
used to exercise then and I thought I

833
00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:14,399
was being healthy back then but I had

834
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:17,190
been deceived and so by being willing to

835
00:33:22,580 --> 00:33:20,130
reconsider what I thought I know I have

836
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:22,590
been able to make positive changes in my

837
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:25,529
life and so I can completely empathize

838
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:27,690
with people who say that this flatter

839
00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:29,940
thing or the cue and on thing or the

840
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:31,830
pizza gate thing it is distracting

841
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:34,260
people because yeah how do these things

842
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,210
improve your life if you decide that the

843
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,000
earth is flat for argument's sake

844
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:40,320
putting aside whether or not you're

845
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:42,059
correct about that and of course I say

846
00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:44,010
that flat earth is ring correct but

847
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:45,750
let's just say they were correct for

848
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:48,090
argument's sake well then watch how does

849
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:50,850
it improve your life to know that the

850
00:33:56,150 --> 00:33:53,910
earth is flat in and of itself

851
00:33:58,850 --> 00:33:56,160
I don't see how that does benefit you

852
00:34:00,620 --> 00:33:58,860
other then it allows you now to feel as

853
00:34:03,380 --> 00:34:00,630
though you've got all of these friends

854
00:34:05,150 --> 00:34:03,390
and so what I noticed when I was

855
00:34:09,470 --> 00:34:05,160
studying the flat earth phenomenon

856
00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:09,480
through 2015 2016 2017 a lot of people

857
00:34:14,870 --> 00:34:12,660
they do come to identify with the

858
00:34:17,870 --> 00:34:14,880
conspiracy or with the alternative

859
00:34:20,659 --> 00:34:17,880
theories that they have adopted and now

860
00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:20,669
because of Google Hangouts and how easy

861
00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:22,020
it is to communicate with people all

862
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:23,940
around the world they form their own

863
00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:28,020
online enclaves and it almost becomes I

864
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:30,840
don't to use the word like a cult but it

865
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,690
almost becomes people they find this new

866
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:36,240
group identity and then anyone who

867
00:34:43,010 --> 00:34:38,880
challenges that they see those people as

868
00:34:44,060 --> 00:34:43,020
like an outsider and a blasphemer and so

869
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:44,070
in all the time that I've been doing

870
00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:46,290
this and I cover so many different

871
00:34:50,810 --> 00:34:48,540
topics and a lot of my perspectives are

872
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,820
controversial in all of my time doing

873
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:52,800
this there's only been two occasions

874
00:34:59,570 --> 00:34:56,130
where myself or a family member or a

875
00:35:01,790 --> 00:34:59,580
friend has been Facebook stalked and had

876
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:01,800
their personal details shared by

877
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:04,530
somebody who was angry at me for my work

878
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:06,810
and on both occasions it was flat

879
00:35:10,580 --> 00:35:08,760
earthers who did that a flattered that

880
00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:10,590
Facebook's thought the family member of

881
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:12,750
mine and they shared their details

882
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:15,210
publicly and a different flattered that

883
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:19,130
Facebook's thoughts a friend of mine and

884
00:35:25,070 --> 00:35:22,140
same thing released his details publicly

885
00:35:26,510 --> 00:35:25,080
accused him of being a deceiver I mean

886
00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:26,520
this is pretty full-on stuff when

887
00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:29,550
ultimately all I'm doing is saying to

888
00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:31,140
people here's my research here's my

889
00:35:35,570 --> 00:35:33,390
reasoning here's my questions let's have

890
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:35,580
a chat about this for people to go to

891
00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:38,400
those kinds of links it shows that this

892
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,440
is more than just an exploration for

893
00:35:45,830 --> 00:35:42,960
them this is more than just questioning

894
00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:45,840
what they think they know or questioning

895
00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:47,580
how they've been deceived this has

896
00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:49,710
become something of an identity for them

897
00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:52,350
and that's not what I got into this for

898
00:35:57,950 --> 00:35:54,900
Greg I never got into this to take up a

899
00:36:00,200 --> 00:35:57,960
new identity as a believer of this thing

900
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:00,210
or as a promoter of that thing I just

901
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:02,250
got here to find out well how have I

902
00:36:06,590 --> 00:36:04,410
been deceived and how can I improve my

903
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:06,600
life and so when I was listening to your

904
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:08,000
chat with Gordon

905
00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:10,250
I thought I can relate to disagree even

906
00:36:13,870 --> 00:36:12,110
if you're saying that the dinosaur hoax

907
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:13,880
is a distraction whereas I think it's

908
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:15,530
actually a very important topic that is

909
00:36:21,010 --> 00:36:18,560
worthy of our time I did get where

910
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:21,020
you're coming from because who wants to

911
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:22,610
tell their friends and family now that

912
00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:24,800
they're into alternative theories if the

913
00:36:27,970 --> 00:36:26,120
first thing that you're going to be told

914
00:36:30,610 --> 00:36:27,980
in response is oh then you must be a

915
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,620
flat earther right it's I can completely

916
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:32,960
understand that frustration my hope is

917
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:35,810
that by the end of this call you and

918
00:36:40,030 --> 00:36:37,490
your listeners will understand I'm not

919
00:36:42,370 --> 00:36:40,040
feeding into that I'm doing the opposite

920
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:42,380
I do consider myself to be the world's

921
00:36:46,540 --> 00:36:44,810
leading Flat Earth skeptic so the same

922
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:46,550
skeptical approach that I take to

923
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:49,040
dinosaurs or the history I take that to

924
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:51,770
Flat Earth as well and one of the

925
00:36:56,050 --> 00:36:54,050
reasons why you won't see so many Flat

926
00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:56,060
Earth skeptic videos on my youtube

927
00:37:00,760 --> 00:36:58,370
channel is that once I'd released 50 of

928
00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:00,770
these videos I thought to myself I've

929
00:37:04,570 --> 00:37:02,630
done enough of this now every time I

930
00:37:06,670 --> 00:37:04,580
release a Flat Earth skeptic video every

931
00:37:08,770 --> 00:37:06,680
time I release a video saying here is

932
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:08,780
the argument of the flat earthers here

933
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:10,160
is the empirical evidence that

934
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,110
contradicts it here is how they are

935
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,480
wrong every time I did that it felt like

936
00:37:18,910 --> 00:37:16,400
all I was doing was giving Flat Earth

937
00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:18,920
more attention it actually felt like I

938
00:37:26,410 --> 00:37:21,950
was feeding the beast so after my 50th

939
00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:26,420
my 50th Flat Earth skeptic video I said

940
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:27,740
that's it I'm finished with this I

941
00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:30,320
recorded a two-hour show where I just

942
00:37:34,750 --> 00:37:32,780
reviewed all of those videos and I left

943
00:37:36,610 --> 00:37:34,760
that video up on my website and I

944
00:37:39,130 --> 00:37:36,620
actually set almost all of the other

945
00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:39,140
videos to unlisted on my YouTube channel

946
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:42,140
just to disassociate myself from Flat

947
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:45,200
Earth because I realize now that even by

948
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:47,510
questioning Flat Earth in some ways all

949
00:37:50,830 --> 00:37:49,850
you're doing is helping them so I guess

950
00:37:52,810 --> 00:37:50,840
the point I'm trying to make here Gregg

951
00:37:55,060 --> 00:37:52,820
is then I feel like I can empathize with

952
00:37:56,530 --> 00:37:55,070
your frustration but at the same time I

953
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:56,540
just don't feel like the work that I'm

954
00:38:00,100 --> 00:37:58,610
doing I don't feel like I'm part of the

955
00:38:03,220 --> 00:38:00,110
problem I actually kind of feel like my

956
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:03,230
approach is part of the solution fair

957
00:38:08,050 --> 00:38:06,050
enough I mean hey I agree to some extent

958
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:08,060
or you wouldn't be here so I think

959
00:38:11,980 --> 00:38:10,850
that's really well said and I really

960
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:11,990
kind of want to get into the meat of

961
00:38:17,310 --> 00:38:14,690
things because man time is just going by

962
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:17,320
so quickly and I am enjoying this but

963
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:20,240
history is clearly a big topic the

964
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,180
existence of Dinah

965
00:38:25,849 --> 00:38:23,760
would fall into history our concepts of

966
00:38:28,910 --> 00:38:25,859
human development hunter-gatherer

967
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:28,920
societies ancient Egypt Greece and Rome

968
00:38:33,650 --> 00:38:31,200
megalithic structures and digitus

969
00:38:36,430 --> 00:38:33,660
cultures I mean it is a huge body of

970
00:38:39,319 --> 00:38:36,440
material that you're casting doubt on

971
00:38:42,109 --> 00:38:39,329
really the whole human story as it's

972
00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:42,119
generally accepted how do we introduce

973
00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:43,619
people to something like this how do you

974
00:38:48,829 --> 00:38:45,660
attend to lay a base for the history

975
00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:48,839
hopes itself excellent question so one

976
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:50,760
of the things that I'd like to do is to

977
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:53,250
breed out a quote from George Orwell

978
00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:55,410
because most people will tell you that

979
00:39:00,500 --> 00:38:57,470
they're familiar we have the story of

980
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:00,510
1984 by George Orwell so here's a quick

981
00:39:06,829 --> 00:39:04,050
quote from that book if all others

982
00:39:10,309 --> 00:39:06,839
accepted the lie which the party imposed

983
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:10,319
before records told the same tale then

984
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:12,960
the lie passed into history and became

985
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:16,079
truth who controls the past friend the

986
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:18,690
party slogan controls the future who

987
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:20,910
controls the present controls the past

988
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:23,490
and again that's from 1984 by George

989
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:26,130
Orwell when you were going through

990
00:39:31,609 --> 00:39:28,440
school Greg did you find it strange how

991
00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:31,619
often the textbooks would change did you

992
00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:33,000
ever find that interesting how every few

993
00:39:38,059 --> 00:39:35,940
years the textbooks for a particular

994
00:39:40,190 --> 00:39:38,069
class you would have to go and buy a new

995
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:40,200
textbook you couldn't use one from ten

996
00:39:43,940 --> 00:39:41,970
years ago that was out of date did you

997
00:39:45,530 --> 00:39:43,950
ever notice that yeah I mean in grade

998
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:45,540
school I think it's a little bit

999
00:39:49,099 --> 00:39:47,520
different here but I know what you're

1000
00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:49,109
saying yeah they definitely change all

1001
00:39:52,309 --> 00:39:49,790
the time

1002
00:39:54,319 --> 00:39:52,319
yeah well maybe it is different in your

1003
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:54,329
part of the world but here in Australia

1004
00:39:58,460 --> 00:39:56,490
it was often the case that a child

1005
00:40:00,829 --> 00:39:58,470
couldn't use the textbooks from his

1006
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:00,839
older brother because by the time he got

1007
00:40:05,059 --> 00:40:03,089
to the same class the books had changed

1008
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:05,069
now there is a commercial

1009
00:40:09,799 --> 00:40:07,530
I guess incentive behind this if you

1010
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,809
constantly change the textbooks and the

1011
00:40:13,549 --> 00:40:11,280
parents have to keep reapplying new

1012
00:40:15,020 --> 00:40:13,559
textbooks then it means more money for

1013
00:40:17,089 --> 00:40:15,030
the publishers of the books and these

1014
00:40:19,370 --> 00:40:17,099
kinds of things so there is a commercial

1015
00:40:21,710 --> 00:40:19,380
element to it what I'm getting at though

1016
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:21,720
is if the textbooks are constantly

1017
00:40:25,099 --> 00:40:22,380
changing

1018
00:40:27,410 --> 00:40:25,109
then every new cohort of children is

1019
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:27,420
getting a new version of history and

1020
00:40:34,099 --> 00:40:31,710
most parents today do not have a very

1021
00:40:34,769 --> 00:40:34,109
hands-on approach to their children's

1022
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:34,779
education

1023
00:40:39,149 --> 00:40:36,640
they send their children up to school

1024
00:40:41,339 --> 00:40:39,159
and they trust that the children will be

1025
00:40:43,439 --> 00:40:41,349
taught the truth that we taught what

1026
00:40:45,689 --> 00:40:43,449
they need to know and so what I'm

1027
00:40:48,809 --> 00:40:45,699
suggesting is that it's actually very

1028
00:40:52,109 --> 00:40:48,819
easy for what we think is history to

1029
00:40:55,049 --> 00:40:52,119
change on a regular basis even through

1030
00:40:57,959 --> 00:40:55,059
school and then if you pay attention to

1031
00:40:59,249 --> 00:40:57,969
the news you'll notice that every now

1032
00:41:02,880 --> 00:40:59,259
and then there'll be a new story about

1033
00:41:05,039 --> 00:41:02,890
all the experts have found this new

1034
00:41:07,409 --> 00:41:05,049
piece of archaeological evidence that

1035
00:41:10,529 --> 00:41:07,419
suggests that the timeline goes back

1036
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,539
even further than we thought so to use

1037
00:41:15,299 --> 00:41:12,880
one example when I was in school as a

1038
00:41:18,329 --> 00:41:15,309
child and I'm only thirty years old by

1039
00:41:20,219 --> 00:41:18,339
the way Greg I turned 31 this month we

1040
00:41:22,259 --> 00:41:20,229
were told that the Indigenous

1041
00:41:25,169 --> 00:41:22,269
Australians the natives who were here

1042
00:41:28,380 --> 00:41:25,179
before colonialism that they had been

1043
00:41:30,269 --> 00:41:28,390
here for about 20,000 years that was a

1044
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:30,279
story that we were told at school I've

1045
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:32,169
spoken with my friends and I've spoken

1046
00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:34,089
with other people who are my age who

1047
00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:35,380
went to different schools to me and

1048
00:41:39,449 --> 00:41:37,150
that's how they remembered as well

1049
00:41:42,149 --> 00:41:39,459
anywhere from twenty to forty thousand

1050
00:41:44,489 --> 00:41:42,159
years well just last year there was a

1051
00:41:47,219 --> 00:41:44,499
news story saying that there was no

1052
00:41:50,279 --> 00:41:47,229
archaeological evidence that puts the

1053
00:41:52,949 --> 00:41:50,289
timeline back to maybe seventy-five

1054
00:41:55,799 --> 00:41:52,959
thousand years and in the interim in the

1055
00:41:57,479 --> 00:41:55,809
20 years between my school and this news

1056
00:42:00,239 --> 00:41:57,489
story there were several other news

1057
00:42:02,699 --> 00:42:00,249
stories on an intermittent fashion and

1058
00:42:05,399 --> 00:42:02,709
each one of them put back the history

1059
00:42:07,709 --> 00:42:05,409
another few thousand years so we're at

1060
00:42:09,689 --> 00:42:07,719
the stage now where someone my age 30

1061
00:42:11,099 --> 00:42:09,699
years old who remembers being taught

1062
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:11,109
that the indigenous had been here for

1063
00:42:16,859 --> 00:42:13,599
20,000 years that history has now been

1064
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:16,869
pushed back to 70,000 years according to

1065
00:42:22,259 --> 00:42:19,209
the experts as their stories are told

1066
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:22,269
through the mainstream media so right

1067
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:24,130
from the outset I find myself wondering

1068
00:42:30,449 --> 00:42:27,609
if history can change that much in a

1069
00:42:34,049 --> 00:42:30,459
space of twenty years or how much has

1070
00:42:36,539 --> 00:42:34,059
history changed before my time if I was

1071
00:42:37,890 --> 00:42:36,549
being educated in the 1990s how

1072
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:37,900
different was our history from what was

1073
00:42:43,919 --> 00:42:40,390
being taught in say the 1950s or the

1074
00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:43,929
1960s or the 1970s and who would even

1075
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:47,049
know who was taking the time to say guys

1076
00:42:50,849 --> 00:42:48,400
look how fast

1077
00:42:52,349 --> 00:42:50,859
history has changed here maybe this is a

1078
00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:52,359
pattern maybe this has been happening

1079
00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:55,750
for some time so what this has led me to

1080
00:42:59,309 --> 00:42:57,460
do is to go and look into some of these

1081
00:43:01,319 --> 00:42:59,319
things some of these stories that were

1082
00:43:03,569 --> 00:43:01,329
told about history and in particular

1083
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:03,579
I've been looking at ancient Greece

1084
00:43:10,980 --> 00:43:07,720
ancient Rome and ancient Egypt and what

1085
00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:10,990
I have discovered Greg has shaken me to

1086
00:43:17,250 --> 00:43:14,230
the core of my miserable soul I have

1087
00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:17,260
discovered that it turns out that things

1088
00:43:21,950 --> 00:43:20,500
like Egyptology didn't even exist more

1089
00:43:25,319 --> 00:43:21,960
than 130 years ago

1090
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:25,329
Egyptology itself the study of what we

1091
00:43:30,260 --> 00:43:27,910
call ancient Egypt is only a hundred and

1092
00:43:33,690 --> 00:43:30,270
thirty or a hundred and forty years old

1093
00:43:35,370 --> 00:43:33,700
now on its own that might not sound so

1094
00:43:38,250 --> 00:43:35,380
controversial but if we look at where

1095
00:43:39,690 --> 00:43:38,260
these people get their views from what

1096
00:43:42,059 --> 00:43:39,700
is their evidence what are their primary

1097
00:43:44,579 --> 00:43:42,069
sources for the claims that they give us

1098
00:43:46,349 --> 00:43:44,589
about ancient Egypt what I have

1099
00:43:49,099 --> 00:43:46,359
discovered has led me to the inference

1100
00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:49,109
that this is all a relatively recent

1101
00:43:54,329 --> 00:43:51,910
fabrication now before I go further

1102
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:54,339
great can I ask you if I say to you

1103
00:43:59,549 --> 00:43:57,250
ancient Egypt what do you imagine in

1104
00:44:02,460 --> 00:43:59,559
your mind okay if I say to you those two

1105
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:02,470
key tombs ancient Egypt what kind of

1106
00:44:08,539 --> 00:44:04,240
images come to mind what does your mind

1107
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:08,549
associate with the term ancient Egypt I

1108
00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:12,160
generally think of people who had a

1109
00:44:18,990 --> 00:44:15,720
pretty evolved spirituality Pharaohs

1110
00:44:21,150 --> 00:44:19,000
mystery schools and of course the images

1111
00:44:23,849 --> 00:44:21,160
we get from Hollywood and artists

1112
00:44:26,910 --> 00:44:23,859
depictions make it seem like a desert

1113
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:26,920
oasis with gold and jewels everywhere

1114
00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:28,569
that sort of stuff

1115
00:44:32,609 --> 00:44:30,520
yeah exactly the same gives me if

1116
00:44:35,279 --> 00:44:32,619
someone says to me ancient Egypt I'm

1117
00:44:37,289 --> 00:44:35,289
thinking about pyramids I'm thinking

1118
00:44:39,299 --> 00:44:37,299
about people doing funny little dances

1119
00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:39,309
we bare hands up to the front and back

1120
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:42,220
to the side and I'm thinking of lots of

1121
00:44:48,029 --> 00:44:45,490
sand I'm thinking of maybe slaves or

1122
00:44:49,650 --> 00:44:48,039
were they workers who build the pyramids

1123
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:49,660
were they slaves or were they paid to be

1124
00:44:53,549 --> 00:44:51,490
there well whoever they were they must

1125
00:44:55,769 --> 00:44:53,559
have worked very hard to move all of

1126
00:44:56,910 --> 00:44:55,779
those stones into place these are the

1127
00:44:59,099 --> 00:44:56,920
kinds of things that I'm thinking about

1128
00:45:00,930 --> 00:44:59,109
and I'm thinking about it all happening

1129
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:00,940
thousands of years ago

1130
00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:03,040
so let's explore where do we get the

1131
00:45:08,210 --> 00:45:06,190
idea that ancient Egypt is thousands of

1132
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:08,220
years old where does that idea come from

1133
00:45:13,860 --> 00:45:11,050
have we taken the time to study the

1134
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:13,870
sources for these claims or have these

1135
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:16,570
ideas been put there by a school and by

1136
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:19,330
television and even to an extent by

1137
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:20,800
conspiracy culture

1138
00:45:24,570 --> 00:45:23,170
well let's fast-forward a little while

1139
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:24,580
through my research through the things

1140
00:45:27,450 --> 00:45:26,650
that are discovered what if I were to

1141
00:45:28,970 --> 00:45:27,460
tell you Greg

1142
00:45:31,890 --> 00:45:28,980
that according to the official

1143
00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:31,900
historians if you trace their sources

1144
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:34,180
that is you open up a history book and

1145
00:45:40,620 --> 00:45:37,570
it says that say a particular Pharaoh

1146
00:45:42,660 --> 00:45:40,630
from ancient Egypt is from 4000 years

1147
00:45:45,090 --> 00:45:42,670
ago for argument's sake and you decide

1148
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:45,100
I'm going to look into the evidence for

1149
00:45:49,470 --> 00:45:47,200
that claim how do they know what he said

1150
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,480
how do they know that he was there 4000

1151
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:51,760
years ago what's their evidence so you

1152
00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:53,710
go to the back of the history book you

1153
00:45:58,260 --> 00:45:55,630
go to the reference section and you

1154
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,270
finds their sources then you go and look

1155
00:46:02,130 --> 00:46:00,400
up those sources right what's your

1156
00:46:04,350 --> 00:46:02,140
evidence that this is what happened

1157
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:04,360
thousands of years ago and you continue

1158
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:06,010
this process just tracing through the

1159
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:09,310
sources to the actual evidence not the

1160
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:11,560
story of what happened but the evidence

1161
00:46:16,620 --> 00:46:14,770
on which that story is based what if I

1162
00:46:19,170 --> 00:46:16,630
told you that if you do then the

1163
00:46:23,070 --> 00:46:19,180
evidence goes back to a thing called the

1164
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:23,080
Oxyrhynchus papyri from the late 1800s

1165
00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:25,420
that were discovered by 2 oxford

1166
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:28,150
scholars in what they claimed to have

1167
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:31,210
been an ancient egyptian or a rubbish

1168
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:34,810
dump that is that their sources for a

1169
00:46:38,690 --> 00:46:36,130
lot of the stories that were told about

1170
00:46:42,420 --> 00:46:38,700
ancient Egypt and even ancient Greece

1171
00:46:45,330 --> 00:46:42,430
these primary sources the sources that

1172
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:45,340
supposedly come from the time of ancient

1173
00:46:49,710 --> 00:46:47,650
Egypt and of ancient Greece those

1174
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:49,720
sources are claims to have been

1175
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:52,480
discovered by to Oxford scholars named

1176
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:56,170
grenfell and hunt in the late 1800s in

1177
00:47:01,560 --> 00:46:57,610
what they claimed to have been an

1178
00:47:03,810 --> 00:47:01,570
ancient Egyptian rubbish dump does that

1179
00:47:06,210 --> 00:47:03,820
sound like it is even possible that

1180
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:06,220
could be the case or does it sound like

1181
00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:08,290
I must be making this aha

1182
00:47:12,349 --> 00:47:10,150
well from going over your work already

1183
00:47:16,460 --> 00:47:12,359
I'm familiar with that argument and

1184
00:47:19,009 --> 00:47:16,470
I guess it's suspect but I wonder and

1185
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:19,019
I'm not an expert but there's more

1186
00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:21,690
documents than just this particular

1187
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:25,049
papyri that our concepts of ancient

1188
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:26,970
Egypt are based on I mean we could see

1189
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:29,730
the pyramid so they're there and they

1190
00:47:36,140 --> 00:47:32,730
look like they're somewhat old I don't

1191
00:47:38,479 --> 00:47:36,150
know how to really date erosion but they

1192
00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:38,489
also had a language that is no longer in

1193
00:47:45,259 --> 00:47:41,609
use and I feel like there's some depth

1194
00:47:48,799 --> 00:47:45,269
there to just create or fabricate out of

1195
00:47:50,539 --> 00:47:48,809
thin air no well that's exactly right so

1196
00:47:53,930 --> 00:47:50,549
when you first present to people this

1197
00:47:56,599 --> 00:47:53,940
idea that if you trace the sources so

1198
00:47:58,220 --> 00:47:56,609
you've got official historians who have

1199
00:48:01,489 --> 00:47:58,230
their stories about what happened in the

1200
00:48:04,519 --> 00:48:01,499
past if you trace their sources back to

1201
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,529
the primary source that oftentimes it

1202
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:06,480
goes back to a rubbish dump from the

1203
00:48:11,630 --> 00:48:09,180
late 1800s discovered by two wats and

1204
00:48:14,180 --> 00:48:11,640
scholars the first response I think will

1205
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:14,190
naturally be no no no there must be

1206
00:48:19,009 --> 00:48:16,079
other documents there must be mm-hmm and

1207
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,019
so let's explore that further we assume

1208
00:48:23,660 --> 00:48:21,599
there must be more documents because why

1209
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:23,670
because we've been told all of these

1210
00:48:27,529 --> 00:48:25,200
stories throughout our life we've seen

1211
00:48:28,849 --> 00:48:27,539
them on TV we went to school we were

1212
00:48:31,279 --> 00:48:28,859
given all of these stories about the

1213
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:31,289
past we assume there must be more

1214
00:48:34,999 --> 00:48:32,609
evidence there must be more

1215
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:35,009
documentation so if somebody comes along

1216
00:48:37,249 --> 00:48:36,720
and they say to us yeah that's what I

1217
00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:37,259
thought

1218
00:48:42,829 --> 00:48:40,680
I spent hours and hours and hours

1219
00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:42,839
searching for it and I couldn't find any

1220
00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:44,910
every single time the primary sources

1221
00:48:50,029 --> 00:48:47,369
traced back to relatively recent

1222
00:48:51,859 --> 00:48:50,039
so-called discoveries our natural

1223
00:48:54,319 --> 00:48:51,869
inclination is the state of that person

1224
00:48:56,559 --> 00:48:54,329
no you must be missing something there

1225
00:48:59,509 --> 00:48:56,569
must be more evidence that you've missed

1226
00:49:01,849 --> 00:48:59,519
what our natural inclination isn't to do

1227
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,859
is to say I'm going to disprove him I'm

1228
00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:03,839
going to get a history textbook I'm

1229
00:49:07,999 --> 00:49:06,180
going to check their references I am

1230
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:08,009
going to trace the source as myself and

1231
00:49:11,620 --> 00:49:09,900
I'm going to discover sources that are

1232
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:11,630
much older than his claim in there are a

1233
00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:14,730
natural inclination is not to scrutinize

1234
00:49:19,339 --> 00:49:16,920
history it is to take the stories that

1235
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:19,349
we're told on face value which is one of

1236
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:21,839
the reasons why I don't blame anyone

1237
00:49:25,819 --> 00:49:24,420
if after hearing me suggests that a lot

1238
00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:25,829
of these stories go back to a rubbish

1239
00:49:28,700 --> 00:49:26,220
dump

1240
00:49:30,770 --> 00:49:28,710
from the late 1800s I don't blame them

1241
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,780
if they think that I'm making that up or

1242
00:49:34,310 --> 00:49:32,160
if they think that I'm exaggerating or

1243
00:49:36,650 --> 00:49:34,320
embellishing I don't blame them at all

1244
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:36,660
but what I hope some people will do and

1245
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:37,980
this is why it's terrific that you've

1246
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:40,260
got such a wide audience Greek surely

1247
00:49:44,570 --> 00:49:41,910
some people in your audience are going

1248
00:49:47,089 --> 00:49:44,580
to say this John the Bond guy he must be

1249
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:47,099
exaggerating I'm going to disprove him

1250
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:50,400
by getting a history textbook by tracing

1251
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:52,800
through the sources right back to the

1252
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:55,050
primary source and I'm going to prove

1253
00:49:59,120 --> 00:49:57,810
that we have evidence that is older than

1254
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,130
a hundred or two hundred years I'm going

1255
00:50:03,140 --> 00:50:01,200
to prove it I'm going to disprove JLB

1256
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:03,150
I'm hoping some of your listeners will

1257
00:50:07,609 --> 00:50:05,369
do that but I can tell you exactly

1258
00:50:09,730 --> 00:50:07,619
what's going to happen if they try they

1259
00:50:13,220 --> 00:50:09,740
will arrive at the same conclusion as me

1260
00:50:15,140 --> 00:50:13,230
history as we know it is all a sham it's

1261
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:15,150
all a sham as ridiculous as that sounds

1262
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:18,960
as crazy as that sounds as completely

1263
00:50:24,140 --> 00:50:21,810
bonkers as that sounds if you take the

1264
00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:24,150
time to trace the sources this is the

1265
00:50:28,730 --> 00:50:26,609
logical inference that you will draw it

1266
00:50:32,089 --> 00:50:28,740
is all a sham ancient Egypt ancient

1267
00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:32,099
Greece ancient Rome all of the stories

1268
00:50:37,579 --> 00:50:34,950
in our heads complete nonsense and the

1269
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:37,589
facts that so few of us will ever take

1270
00:50:42,980 --> 00:50:40,290
the time to check is a reason as to why

1271
00:50:44,270 --> 00:50:42,990
this is so easy to pull off if you can

1272
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:44,280
convince the masses of all of these

1273
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:46,650
stories and none of them take the time

1274
00:50:51,290 --> 00:50:48,690
to check the sources then just imagine

1275
00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:51,300
how easy it would be to deceive the

1276
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:52,609
whole lot of them

1277
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:55,680
hmm I mean you're absolutely right and

1278
00:51:01,310 --> 00:50:57,930
it is a fair point that it is up to me

1279
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:01,320
to present you with counter evidence and

1280
00:51:08,089 --> 00:51:05,490
I don't have any ancient Egyptian papyri

1281
00:51:11,570 --> 00:51:08,099
in which to do that with I do assume

1282
00:51:16,089 --> 00:51:11,580
that there are a lot of tablets and

1283
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:16,099
tombs and cartoons that do have

1284
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:18,930
hieroglyphs on them I have seen some

1285
00:51:23,089 --> 00:51:20,490
I've been to the British Museum I've

1286
00:51:26,089 --> 00:51:23,099
been to several museums that have things

1287
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:26,099
that they claim are from ancient Egypt

1288
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:27,930
but I really can't prove that they are

1289
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:30,330
aren't but I guess to play devil's

1290
00:51:36,410 --> 00:51:33,119
advocate the printing press were told

1291
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:36,420
came along in the 1400s and I could see

1292
00:51:39,740 --> 00:51:38,010
that being the Internet of its day

1293
00:51:42,350 --> 00:51:39,750
because information can finally

1294
00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:42,360
be distributed with ease because before

1295
00:51:45,770 --> 00:51:44,310
that everything is handwritten and not

1296
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:45,780
really built to last

1297
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:48,720
so these chroniclers as a method of

1298
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:50,610
preservation had to rewrite these

1299
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:52,850
crumbling scrolls and papyri and

1300
00:51:59,120 --> 00:51:56,640
sometimes you just won't get your hands

1301
00:52:00,800 --> 00:51:59,130
on a primary source these things fall

1302
00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:00,810
apart with time I would think I mean I

1303
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:02,310
can see how you'd be skeptical of all

1304
00:52:07,010 --> 00:52:04,770
that it's also a lot of trust to put in

1305
00:52:09,050 --> 00:52:07,020
people of the ancient past to think that

1306
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:09,060
they did an honest job of copying

1307
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:11,850
something but it's just kind of all we

1308
00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:13,680
have I mean is that not a reasonable

1309
00:52:17,870 --> 00:52:15,660
explanation for why we don't have more

1310
00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:17,880
primary sources that the technology

1311
00:52:21,050 --> 00:52:19,590
wasn't there and people really aren't

1312
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:21,060
that concerned with how things are going

1313
00:52:24,830 --> 00:52:23,250
to be viewed a thousand years past their

1314
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:24,840
own life you know they're only concerned

1315
00:52:30,620 --> 00:52:27,510
with their small sliver of time and this

1316
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:30,630
might just be an unfortunate aspect of

1317
00:52:35,900 --> 00:52:34,500
our progression as a species it well

1318
00:52:38,180 --> 00:52:35,910
there's a couple of things there firstly

1319
00:52:40,070 --> 00:52:38,190
I don't actually think it is your job to

1320
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:40,080
present me with evidence I think if

1321
00:52:44,330 --> 00:52:42,330
you're comfortable with your beliefs

1322
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:44,340
then you don't have to go out of your

1323
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:47,130
way to prove them to me so if I'm saying

1324
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:49,290
that I used to completely believe in

1325
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,810
ancient Egypt and when I was a child I

1326
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:53,700
loved the TV show Stargate remember

1327
00:52:57,170 --> 00:52:55,890
Stargate sg-1 and the original film

1328
00:52:59,720 --> 00:52:57,180
Stargate with Kurt Russell

1329
00:53:01,690 --> 00:52:59,730
I still love those and they're largely

1330
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:01,700
based on the stories that we have about

1331
00:53:06,830 --> 00:53:03,870
ancient Egypt obviously those are a

1332
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:06,840
fictionalized TV show but a lot of the

1333
00:53:10,220 --> 00:53:08,730
narrative of those shows is based on

1334
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:10,230
this idea that there was an ancient

1335
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,830
Egypt

1336
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:12,960
the same way that we're told by history

1337
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:15,810
in school and TV Rome nice to love that

1338
00:53:21,170 --> 00:53:18,210
stuff so I used to completely believe in

1339
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:21,180
ancient Egypt and now I don't because

1340
00:53:24,430 --> 00:53:22,890
I've taken the time to trace through the

1341
00:53:25,839 --> 00:53:24,440
sources

1342
00:53:28,780 --> 00:53:25,849
but that doesn't mean that it's your job

1343
00:53:30,730 --> 00:53:28,790
or anyone else's job to prove to me that

1344
00:53:33,730 --> 00:53:30,740
ancient Egypt Israel if you're

1345
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:33,740
comfortable with your beliefs then I say

1346
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,050
that's totally cool the problem for me

1347
00:53:40,510 --> 00:53:38,480
is that I got onto this path when I

1348
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:40,520
first realized how easily I had been

1349
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:43,250
deceived I thought I have to get into

1350
00:53:48,670 --> 00:53:46,010
the habit now of not basing my evidence

1351
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:48,680
on my beliefs but basing my beliefs on

1352
00:53:52,870 --> 00:53:50,720
evidence and that means I have to go and

1353
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:52,880
search for evidence and so with things

1354
00:53:57,309 --> 00:53:55,310
like ancient history well when I was in

1355
00:54:00,160 --> 00:53:57,319
school I was given the stories and I was

1356
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:00,170
told to memorize the stories but we

1357
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:01,490
weren't actually given the evidence we

1358
00:54:04,750 --> 00:54:03,200
were just given the stories and the

1359
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:04,760
story is in and of themselves are not

1360
00:54:09,309 --> 00:54:07,520
evidence just because hundreds or

1361
00:54:12,579 --> 00:54:09,319
thousands of people repeat the same

1362
00:54:13,870 --> 00:54:12,589
story that doesn't make it evidence what

1363
00:54:15,970 --> 00:54:13,880
I need to do is try and find the

1364
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:15,980
evidence which is why I found myself

1365
00:54:21,010 --> 00:54:18,290
trying to trace back through the sources

1366
00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:21,020
he is a history book he is what they

1367
00:54:25,450 --> 00:54:22,910
claim let's go to the references let's

1368
00:54:27,250 --> 00:54:25,460
go and get that book and that's why I

1369
00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:27,260
arrived at this position now where I say

1370
00:54:31,540 --> 00:54:29,180
there are no primary sources this is all

1371
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:31,550
make-believe but that's just my

1372
00:54:35,410 --> 00:54:33,650
interpretation now having tried to find

1373
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:35,420
the evidence and seeing that there was

1374
00:54:40,089 --> 00:54:38,000
none that it was a complete sham this is

1375
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:40,099
the interpretation I've come to but that

1376
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:41,690
was just because that was a skeptical

1377
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,089
path that I was on and that I am on but

1378
00:54:48,609 --> 00:54:46,160
this isn't necessarily the path for

1379
00:54:51,250 --> 00:54:48,619
everyone because as humans we have to

1380
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:51,260
find meaning in the world and sometimes

1381
00:54:56,380 --> 00:54:53,390
these stories about ancient Egypt or

1382
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:56,390
ancient Rome or ancient Greece sometimes

1383
00:55:00,880 --> 00:54:58,160
these stories can give us a sense of

1384
00:55:03,609 --> 00:55:00,890
meaning and so Who am I to come along

1385
00:55:05,980 --> 00:55:03,619
and say I've looked for the evidence and

1386
00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:05,990
I find it completely unconvincing now

1387
00:55:10,359 --> 00:55:07,849
that I've looked for it and seeing what

1388
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:10,369
the actual evidence is it's a joke Who

1389
00:55:15,250 --> 00:55:13,130
am I to say oh now you have to also let

1390
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:15,260
go of your beliefs in ancient history no

1391
00:55:18,940 --> 00:55:17,089
no not at all people can believe

1392
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:18,950
whatever they want and this is why my

1393
00:55:24,339 --> 00:55:22,160
website and my youtube channel they will

1394
00:55:26,770 --> 00:55:24,349
always be niche within the broader

1395
00:55:29,319 --> 00:55:26,780
conspiracy culture Pirela more within

1396
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:29,329
the broader alternative realm because

1397
00:55:33,010 --> 00:55:30,890
what I'm doing is I'm saying look at all

1398
00:55:35,170 --> 00:55:33,020
these stories that we have a lot of them

1399
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:35,180
are based on zero evidence or very

1400
00:55:39,910 --> 00:55:37,970
uncompelled evidence so let's

1401
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:39,920
but believing in those stories but

1402
00:55:45,970 --> 00:55:43,609
that's almost antithetical to the usual

1403
00:55:48,460 --> 00:55:45,980
human condition which is to believe in

1404
00:55:50,890 --> 00:55:48,470
stories which is to take stories on face

1405
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:50,900
value to assume that the experts have

1406
00:55:54,460 --> 00:55:52,670
evidence I've never seen the evidence

1407
00:55:56,410 --> 00:55:54,470
but there's lots of experts so I'm sure

1408
00:55:58,690 --> 00:55:56,420
they've got the evidence that's the

1409
00:56:00,190 --> 00:55:58,700
natural human condition and it helps

1410
00:56:02,890 --> 00:56:00,200
give people meaning in their life and

1411
00:56:04,750 --> 00:56:02,900
I'm not trying to take that away when I

1412
00:56:07,390 --> 00:56:04,760
was a little bit younger and a little

1413
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:07,400
bit more naive I was on that kind of

1414
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:10,310
crusade I was thinking no everybody

1415
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:12,530
should base all of their opinions on

1416
00:56:16,270 --> 00:56:14,330
evidence that they have checked for

1417
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:16,280
themselves nobody should take silly

1418
00:56:21,370 --> 00:56:18,410
stories on face value I've got a little

1419
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:21,380
bit self-righteous a year or two ago but

1420
00:56:25,450 --> 00:56:23,210
with the benefit of hindsight and with

1421
00:56:26,950 --> 00:56:25,460
the experience I can see now that a lot

1422
00:56:30,310 --> 00:56:26,960
of these stories do give people meaning

1423
00:56:33,660 --> 00:56:30,320
and ultimately all any of us want to do

1424
00:56:35,730 --> 00:56:33,670
is be happy and so I'm happier

1425
00:56:37,710 --> 00:56:35,740
being a skeptic and looking for the

1426
00:56:39,870 --> 00:56:37,720
evidence and tracing back through the

1427
00:56:42,089 --> 00:56:39,880
sources I'm happy of doing that but I'm

1428
00:56:43,410 --> 00:56:42,099
unusual in that sense so I'm not saying

1429
00:56:45,690 --> 00:56:43,420
that it's your job to find the evidence

1430
00:56:47,609 --> 00:56:45,700
to convince me Greg what I am saying

1431
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:47,619
though is that if people want to say

1432
00:56:53,130 --> 00:56:49,599
that their opinions are based on

1433
00:56:54,660 --> 00:56:53,140
evidence then it is incumbent on them to

1434
00:56:56,670 --> 00:56:54,670
check for the evidence to check the

1435
00:56:59,039 --> 00:56:56,680
sources so really people have to make a

1436
00:57:01,440 --> 00:56:59,049
decision are they going to base their

1437
00:57:03,420 --> 00:57:01,450
opinions on evidence are they going to

1438
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:03,430
spend the time scrutinizing the sources

1439
00:57:08,279 --> 00:57:06,880
or would they rather continue to believe

1440
00:57:10,410 --> 00:57:08,289
what they believe and I think both

1441
00:57:12,420 --> 00:57:10,420
choices are perfectly reasonable but

1442
00:57:14,460 --> 00:57:12,430
they are different choices there is a

1443
00:57:16,049 --> 00:57:14,470
distinction between someone who will

1444
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:16,059
take the time to search for the sources

1445
00:57:20,220 --> 00:57:18,400
and someone who will take the stories on

1446
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:20,230
face value there is a difference there

1447
00:57:26,339 --> 00:57:22,930
is a significant difference between the

1448
00:57:29,130 --> 00:57:26,349
two there is it is a distinction worth

1449
00:57:32,370 --> 00:57:29,140
mentioning but that simple question

1450
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:32,380
still remains of doesn't the unfortunate

1451
00:57:37,019 --> 00:57:34,480
reality of technological progression

1452
00:57:39,170 --> 00:57:37,029
have to be folded into the analysis

1453
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:39,180
isn't it kind of disingenuous not to

1454
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:41,529
well I'm glad you bring that up because

1455
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:44,890
for me this is a very exciting time to

1456
00:57:51,269 --> 00:57:47,200
be alive because of what technology

1457
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:51,279
offers us for example when I went and

1458
00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:53,730
looked into this story of Herodotus

1459
00:57:59,220 --> 00:57:56,910
Herodotus is this important figure of

1460
00:58:02,640 --> 00:57:59,230
ancient history because according to

1461
00:58:05,220 --> 00:58:02,650
historians today here at Otis was the

1462
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:05,230
first historian is considered to be the

1463
00:58:11,309 --> 00:58:08,049
father of history he was the first man

1464
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:11,319
to accumulate information about what had

1465
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:13,750
happened before his time and to write it

1466
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:15,609
down so that future people could know

1467
00:58:20,900 --> 00:58:18,400
about his time and before his time he is

1468
00:58:24,180 --> 00:58:20,910
considered to be the father of history

1469
00:58:26,549 --> 00:58:24,190
now fifty years ago if I wanted to look

1470
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:26,559
into the story of Herodotus as somebody

1471
00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:28,569
living in Brisbane I would have been in

1472
00:58:32,609 --> 00:58:30,160
a lot of trouble I would have had to

1473
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:32,619
have jumped on a boat and gone over to

1474
00:58:37,289 --> 00:58:34,690
England and gone through the Oxford

1475
00:58:39,329 --> 00:58:37,299
libraries or the cabbage libraries to

1476
00:58:40,859 --> 00:58:39,339
trace through the sources and of course

1477
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:40,869
there would be too much trouble so

1478
00:58:45,269 --> 00:58:43,390
instead I would just rely on my third

1479
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:45,279
hair and evidence on my - Sheree

1480
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:47,530
evidence the tertiary sources

1481
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:49,330
such as encyclopedias or these kinds of

1482
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:51,520
things and I would have to take their

1483
00:58:57,390 --> 00:58:54,250
interpretation or their account of the

1484
00:58:59,850 --> 00:58:57,400
primary sources on face value well now

1485
00:59:02,220 --> 00:58:59,860
in 2018 things that things like the

1486
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:02,230
Internet Archive a lot of the books that

1487
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:04,570
go back 100 200 years ago on which

1488
00:59:09,330 --> 00:59:06,970
modern textbooks are often claiming are

1489
00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:09,340
their sources those have been uploaded

1490
00:59:13,350 --> 00:59:11,470
now as PDFs for anyone to check for

1491
00:59:15,210 --> 00:59:13,360
themselves so when I was searching

1492
00:59:18,330 --> 00:59:15,220
through those sources for here at DotA's

1493
00:59:20,690 --> 00:59:18,340
I was able to discover oh okay modern

1494
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:20,700
books are all citing this author from

1495
00:59:26,610 --> 00:59:24,160
1950 let me go and find his book ah I

1496
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:26,620
see in his book he cites as his evidence

1497
00:59:32,370 --> 00:59:30,370
a writer from 1900 for instance okay let

1498
00:59:34,500 --> 00:59:32,380
me go and find a copy of his book within

1499
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:34,510
a few minutes I had a PDF copy of his

1500
00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:36,400
book so I was able to read that book

1501
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:38,710
find out what he was claiming what he's

1502
00:59:42,060 --> 00:59:40,570
here claiming is his sources and so I

1503
00:59:43,730 --> 00:59:42,070
was able to go through this process of

1504
00:59:46,050 --> 00:59:43,740
just tracing back through the sources

1505
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:46,060
yes it still takes a lot of time to read

1506
00:59:50,370 --> 00:59:47,920
all of these books but I have instant

1507
00:59:52,290 --> 00:59:50,380
access to them and so in the space of a

1508
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:52,300
day or two days or three days or however

1509
00:59:55,740 --> 00:59:53,650
long it takes me to read all of these

1510
00:59:58,530 --> 00:59:55,750
books and find that all the best sources

1511
01:00:00,330 --> 00:59:58,540
I'm able to arrive at the start the

1512
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:00,340
start of the story who was the first

1513
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:02,530
person who claimed that here at Otis

1514
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:05,290
said or did what here adonus is claims

1515
01:00:10,830 --> 01:00:07,690
to have said or done and so with

1516
01:00:12,810 --> 01:00:10,840
technology now anybody who wants to take

1517
01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:12,820
a skeptical approach to history can do

1518
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:15,340
so from the comfort of their local cafe

1519
01:00:20,730 --> 01:00:17,170
or from the comfort of their own home

1520
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:20,740
they can access books that are stored in

1521
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:24,250
libraries in say London or inside the

1522
01:00:28,980 --> 01:00:26,770
North East of America in one of your

1523
01:00:30,810 --> 01:00:28,990
prestigious universities we can now

1524
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:30,820
access all of those in PDF form in

1525
01:00:35,850 --> 01:00:33,910
digital form instantly which means that

1526
01:00:39,330 --> 01:00:35,860
now for the first time in recorded human

1527
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:39,340
history anybody can check the validity

1528
01:00:43,650 --> 01:00:42,010
of these stories and I kind of feel like

1529
01:00:46,140 --> 01:00:43,660
I'm one of the first people to do this

1530
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:46,150
so even though I can clearly understand

1531
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:49,330
that 90 or 95 percent of the people who

1532
01:00:53,250 --> 01:00:51,250
ever hear this podcast we will just

1533
01:00:55,590 --> 01:00:53,260
assume that I'm crazy or just assume

1534
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:55,600
that I'm making things up for dramatic

1535
01:00:58,800 --> 01:00:57,490
effect or whatever there will be a small

1536
01:00:59,790 --> 01:00:58,810
percentage of people who will say I'll

1537
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,800
give this a try

1538
01:01:03,530 --> 01:01:01,440
I will go to Internet

1539
01:01:06,140 --> 01:01:03,540
and I will see if I can trace back the

1540
01:01:08,300 --> 01:01:06,150
sources for myself and when they do that

1541
01:01:10,550 --> 01:01:08,310
they will arrive at the exact same

1542
01:01:12,530 --> 01:01:10,560
conclusion as me which is that this is

1543
01:01:14,780 --> 01:01:12,540
all a sham but this is not something

1544
01:01:16,849 --> 01:01:14,790
that people even twenty years ago really

1545
01:01:19,540 --> 01:01:16,859
had access to I mean the Internet

1546
01:01:22,819 --> 01:01:19,550
Archive for instance was only created in

1547
01:01:27,260 --> 01:01:22,829
1996 I think by a fellow called Brewster

1548
01:01:29,420 --> 01:01:27,270
Kahle so a person in my situation say in

1549
01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:29,430
the 1980s if there was someone living in

1550
01:01:34,430 --> 01:01:32,160
Brisbane or living in your part of the

1551
01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:34,440
world who was skeptical about the

1552
01:01:39,140 --> 01:01:36,329
stories of history he would have to

1553
01:01:42,020 --> 01:01:39,150
travel to libraries in person to check

1554
01:01:43,550 --> 01:01:42,030
what was in those books so the process

1555
01:01:45,290 --> 01:01:43,560
that I'm going through now is skeptical

1556
01:01:47,839 --> 01:01:45,300
approach to history it wasn't even

1557
01:01:49,579 --> 01:01:47,849
possible a few decades ago it is

1558
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:49,589
possible now and I think slowly but

1559
01:01:54,890 --> 01:01:51,690
surely more people than a try this if

1560
01:01:56,780 --> 01:01:54,900
for no other reason then to debunk me if

1561
01:01:59,780 --> 01:01:56,790
they say I'm going to do this to debunk

1562
01:02:00,800 --> 01:01:59,790
jlb great fantastic because they're

1563
01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:00,810
still gonna arrive at the same

1564
01:02:04,700 --> 01:02:02,640
conclusion it's not like I just did this

1565
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:04,710
once and said aha history's fake I've

1566
01:02:08,359 --> 01:02:06,240
done this with so many different

1567
01:02:10,579 --> 01:02:08,369
characters of ancient history that I've

1568
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:10,589
now come to the inference it's not just

1569
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:12,810
here at otis and it's not just Plato and

1570
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:15,210
it's not just Caesar and it's not just

1571
01:02:21,550 --> 01:02:17,760
Tooting car moon every single time I

1572
01:02:24,859 --> 01:02:21,560
trace through the sources I arrived at a

1573
01:02:26,839 --> 01:02:24,869
prequel I arrived at a wireframe mesh I

1574
01:02:29,540 --> 01:02:26,849
arrived at a source from a couple

1575
01:02:31,579 --> 01:02:29,550
hundred years ago who himself cites no

1576
01:02:33,170 --> 01:02:31,589
other sources this is all the

1577
01:02:35,930 --> 01:02:33,180
fabrication hahaha

1578
01:02:37,940 --> 01:02:35,940
provocative man and I I do like your

1579
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:37,950
confidence and I wanted to talk to you

1580
01:02:42,589 --> 01:02:40,079
about history as a discipline a little

1581
01:02:45,020 --> 01:02:42,599
bit in our top university so let's get

1582
01:02:46,370 --> 01:02:45,030
into Oxford and Cambridge a bit from

1583
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:46,380
your own site you right

1584
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:48,480
I began by going straight to the top

1585
01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:50,880
Oxford University according to its about

1586
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:53,430
page as the oldest university in the

1587
01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:55,170
english-speaking world Oxford is a

1588
01:03:00,290 --> 01:02:57,660
unique and historic institution there is

1589
01:03:02,809 --> 01:03:00,300
no clear date for its founding but

1590
01:03:07,609 --> 01:03:02,819
teaching existed at Oxford in some form

1591
01:03:11,660 --> 01:03:07,619
in the Year 1096 and developed rapidly

1592
01:03:13,069 --> 01:03:11,670
from 1167 when henry ii banned english

1593
01:03:14,930 --> 01:03:13,079
students from attending the university

1594
01:03:17,450 --> 01:03:14,940
of paris and then you say

1595
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:17,460
that is one old University well over 800

1596
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:20,010
years old they claim somehow they don't

1597
01:03:23,420 --> 01:03:21,810
actually know when they themselves were

1598
01:03:25,730 --> 01:03:23,430
founded which oughta raise some red

1599
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:25,740
flags and a loop in Cambridge here you

1600
01:03:32,900 --> 01:03:28,530
say Oxford created their history

1601
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:32,910
professorship in 1724 Cambridge also

1602
01:03:39,380 --> 01:03:35,730
created a modern history professorship

1603
01:03:41,059 --> 01:03:39,390
in 1724 Britain's two oldest and most

1604
01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:41,069
prestigious universities both

1605
01:03:44,839 --> 01:03:42,900
established their professorships in

1606
01:03:47,420 --> 01:03:44,849
modern history in the very same year

1607
01:03:48,290 --> 01:03:47,430
less than 300 years ago what a

1608
01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:48,300
coincidence

1609
01:03:54,140 --> 01:03:51,270
and I will admit that is pretty

1610
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,150
interesting right yes so in that piece

1611
01:03:59,329 --> 01:03:56,160
and I should explain to the listeners

1612
01:04:01,550 --> 01:03:59,339
I've now got seven pieces on my website

1613
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,560
seven articles that I've written on what

1614
01:04:06,380 --> 01:04:03,839
I call the history Oaks and they follow

1615
01:04:09,859 --> 01:04:06,390
a logical structure so I start off with

1616
01:04:12,410 --> 01:04:09,869
my history hoax a primer and then the

1617
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:12,420
next article is the history of history

1618
01:04:16,700 --> 01:04:15,089
and the second history in that title has

1619
01:04:19,700 --> 01:04:16,710
inverted commas because we think of

1620
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:19,710
history as being this distinct academic

1621
01:04:24,819 --> 01:04:22,290
discipline which must have been going on

1622
01:04:27,770 --> 01:04:24,829
since humans first learned to write

1623
01:04:30,140 --> 01:04:27,780
however if we look into the academic

1624
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:30,150
discipline of history it turns out that

1625
01:04:34,010 --> 01:04:32,010
they fully admit that this is not the

1626
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:34,020
case at all and even I was surprised

1627
01:04:39,050 --> 01:04:36,210
when I first found out that the American

1628
01:04:41,630 --> 01:04:39,060
Historical Association the aah a they

1629
01:04:44,300 --> 01:04:41,640
themselves fully admit that history as

1630
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:44,310
an academic discipline only began in the

1631
01:04:49,819 --> 01:04:47,010
late 1800s and so when I read that on

1632
01:04:52,910 --> 01:04:49,829
their website I thought that can't be

1633
01:04:54,730 --> 01:04:52,920
the case history as a discipline must go

1634
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:54,740
back further than that because

1635
01:05:00,470 --> 01:04:58,079
supposedly the universities do so I went

1636
01:05:03,410 --> 01:05:00,480
to the university's own websites and to

1637
01:05:06,140 --> 01:05:03,420
the history faculty as sub websites of

1638
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:06,150
these universities and what I discovered

1639
01:05:10,430 --> 01:05:07,290
was exactly what you just said

1640
01:05:12,890 --> 01:05:10,440
both Oxford and Cambridge say that their

1641
01:05:15,470 --> 01:05:12,900
first professor in history didn't come

1642
01:05:17,329 --> 01:05:15,480
along until 1720 for the exact same year

1643
01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:17,339
so independent of each other

1644
01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:19,380
both Oxford and Cambridge claimed that

1645
01:05:25,550 --> 01:05:22,260
their first professor of history he

1646
01:05:27,559 --> 01:05:25,560
became a professor in 1724 and both of

1647
01:05:28,790 --> 01:05:27,569
them also say that they didn't start

1648
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:28,800
taking undergrad

1649
01:05:32,990 --> 01:05:30,690
with classes or they didn't start

1650
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:33,000
allowing undergraduate examinations in

1651
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:35,490
history until another hundred and fifty

1652
01:05:41,090 --> 01:05:38,730
years after that so the modern academic

1653
01:05:44,540 --> 01:05:41,100
discipline of history that many of us

1654
01:05:47,270 --> 01:05:44,550
might assume goes back hundreds or

1655
01:05:49,460 --> 01:05:47,280
thousands of years no it doesn't the

1656
01:05:53,740 --> 01:05:49,470
academic discipline of history as we

1657
01:05:56,180 --> 01:05:53,750
know it today is itself a relatively new

1658
01:05:58,850 --> 01:05:56,190
creation compared to what we think is

1659
01:06:01,430 --> 01:05:58,860
human history which in and of itself is

1660
01:06:03,710 --> 01:06:01,440
not necessarily incriminating but it got

1661
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:03,720
me looking further again and then I

1662
01:06:08,330 --> 01:06:05,970
found out that Oxford can't even tell us

1663
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:08,340
when they themselves began as a

1664
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:11,490
university so the institutions the

1665
01:06:16,730 --> 01:06:13,980
establishment institutions who are

1666
01:06:18,890 --> 01:06:16,740
trusted to tell us what was happening

1667
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:18,900
thousands of years ago they can't even

1668
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:21,090
tell us when they themselves first began

1669
01:06:25,860 --> 01:06:23,410
as a university

1670
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:25,870
now again none of this proves that

1671
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:26,890
history is a hoax

1672
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:28,210
on its own I'm not claiming that it does

1673
01:06:32,310 --> 01:06:30,250
but these are the kinds of things that

1674
01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:32,320
were not found the Matt led me to go and

1675
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:34,660
search into things further well I think

1676
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:36,130
there are good points there and I know

1677
01:06:41,490 --> 01:06:39,010
that this is just a building block and

1678
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:41,500
it does have some surprising differences

1679
01:06:46,470 --> 01:06:44,050
from many assumptions people probably

1680
01:06:49,650 --> 01:06:46,480
have out there but it's kind of steeped

1681
01:06:50,670 --> 01:06:49,660
in the english-speaking world when at

1682
01:06:52,100 --> 01:06:50,680
least on your site you're talking about

1683
01:06:56,010 --> 01:06:52,110
the American Historical Association

1684
01:06:59,280 --> 01:06:56,020
these major universities like Oxford and

1685
01:07:01,950 --> 01:06:59,290
Cambridge but as big as it might seem

1686
01:07:04,010 --> 01:07:01,960
now that's kind of a small sliver of

1687
01:07:07,710 --> 01:07:04,020
humanity English was only developed in

1688
01:07:09,540 --> 01:07:07,720
1066 how far back would this kind of

1689
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:09,550
discipline go I mean what about Latin

1690
01:07:15,060 --> 01:07:13,330
Chinese Hebrew Sanskrit are these not

1691
01:07:16,860 --> 01:07:15,070
part of the human story do you think

1692
01:07:20,010 --> 01:07:16,870
these are recent inventions that were

1693
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:20,020
then back casted well that's a good

1694
01:07:23,250 --> 01:07:20,530
question

1695
01:07:24,930 --> 01:07:23,260
where'd is our language come from where

1696
01:07:27,570 --> 01:07:24,940
does English come from and how old are

1697
01:07:29,790 --> 01:07:27,580
these languages and when I looked into

1698
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:29,800
that question what I found out was that

1699
01:07:35,700 --> 01:07:32,770
the way that they try to tell us how old

1700
01:07:39,030 --> 01:07:35,710
languages are it often involves things

1701
01:07:41,490 --> 01:07:39,040
like simple diagrams showing that this

1702
01:07:43,020 --> 01:07:41,500
word in this language sounds similar to

1703
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:43,030
this other word in this other language

1704
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:45,610
and this other word in saw the language

1705
01:07:51,150 --> 01:07:47,890
and then they draw little arrows between

1706
01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:51,160
them and they say that the experts infer

1707
01:07:55,890 --> 01:07:53,590
that this word must have led to that

1708
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:55,900
word and so on and so forth and that's

1709
01:08:00,180 --> 01:07:58,000
how we arrived at what we believe are

1710
01:08:01,890 --> 01:08:00,190
the histories of these languages now I

1711
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:01,900
completely understand how difficult it

1712
01:08:07,770 --> 01:08:04,810
must be to untangle this to untangle how

1713
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:07,780
old are the languages that's kind of the

1714
01:08:11,730 --> 01:08:09,850
point of what I'm making here is let me

1715
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:11,740
actually think about how difficult it

1716
01:08:17,070 --> 01:08:14,410
must be to determine where our languages

1717
01:08:19,770 --> 01:08:17,080
came from why would we then be so quick

1718
01:08:21,870 --> 01:08:19,780
to just take on face value whatever is

1719
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:21,880
the current official story about these

1720
01:08:25,710 --> 01:08:24,400
things so I don't know how old the

1721
01:08:27,210 --> 01:08:25,720
English language is I don't know how old

1722
01:08:28,890 --> 01:08:27,220
Latin is or Hebrew or these kinds of

1723
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:28,900
things but I can tell you though is

1724
01:08:33,090 --> 01:08:30,400
bringing it back to the history hoax

1725
01:08:34,500 --> 01:08:33,100
element once upon a time so goes a story

1726
01:08:36,660 --> 01:08:34,510
according to Cambridge and Oxford in

1727
01:08:37,380 --> 01:08:36,670
these kinds of places once upon a time

1728
01:08:39,390 --> 01:08:37,390
when you

1729
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:39,400
being taught history you had to know how

1730
01:08:44,010 --> 01:08:41,650
to speak Greek gets in how to speak

1731
01:08:47,370 --> 01:08:44,020
Latin that was part of your training in

1732
01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:47,380
the Classical Studies these days you can

1733
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:49,120
graduate with a three year history

1734
01:08:54,030 --> 01:08:51,610
degree without having to know a single

1735
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:54,040
language other than English and to me

1736
01:08:57,510 --> 01:08:55,570
that ought to raise a red flag for

1737
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:57,520
people because what that means is that

1738
01:09:03,750 --> 01:09:00,640
if people like Herodotus or people like

1739
01:09:06,420 --> 01:09:03,760
Tutankhamun or people like Caesar or any

1740
01:09:09,330 --> 01:09:06,430
of these characters of history if they

1741
01:09:11,730 --> 01:09:09,340
or their contemporaries we're writing in

1742
01:09:14,370 --> 01:09:11,740
their own language then there's no way

1743
01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:14,380
that we could read it for ourselves we

1744
01:09:19,470 --> 01:09:16,450
would have to read at the very best a

1745
01:09:20,910 --> 01:09:19,480
translation in English now that doesn't

1746
01:09:23,010 --> 01:09:20,920
mean that we can't know what those

1747
01:09:24,660 --> 01:09:23,020
people were saying but if we are only

1748
01:09:27,810 --> 01:09:24,670
reading English and those people

1749
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:27,820
supposedly wrote in other languages then

1750
01:09:32,580 --> 01:09:30,610
we ought to be skeptical or critical of

1751
01:09:35,670 --> 01:09:32,590
well where does that translation come

1752
01:09:38,250 --> 01:09:35,680
from who performed the translation why

1753
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:38,260
would I take this translation on face

1754
01:09:42,900 --> 01:09:40,930
value and what I'm suggesting is that if

1755
01:09:45,480 --> 01:09:42,910
we go through that process if we say

1756
01:09:48,180 --> 01:09:45,490
right what is considered today to be the

1757
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:48,190
best translation of their works let's go

1758
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:50,410
and find a copy of that book once we

1759
01:09:55,230 --> 01:09:53,170
find that book let's find out where does

1760
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:55,240
that author claim that they got their

1761
01:10:00,090 --> 01:09:57,610
original Herodotus from or their

1762
01:10:02,310 --> 01:10:00,100
original Caesar or their original

1763
01:10:04,590 --> 01:10:02,320
Tutankhamun or any of these characters

1764
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:04,600
of history what is their translation

1765
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:08,050
based on where is the original and what

1766
01:10:12,300 --> 01:10:09,370
I discovered when I went through this

1767
01:10:14,970 --> 01:10:12,310
process is that in many cases there is

1768
01:10:17,460 --> 01:10:14,980
no original so let's use one example

1769
01:10:18,150 --> 01:10:17,470
here at Otis if you look at the story of

1770
01:10:20,430 --> 01:10:18,160
Herodotus

1771
01:10:22,650 --> 01:10:20,440
today you'll be told that we know what

1772
01:10:25,170 --> 01:10:22,660
Herodotus was saying and we know what

1773
01:10:27,660 --> 01:10:25,180
Herodotus was documenting okay great

1774
01:10:29,460 --> 01:10:27,670
what is this story based on we'll find

1775
01:10:32,190 --> 01:10:29,470
out that the official story says that

1776
01:10:36,030 --> 01:10:32,200
we've got books from 1850 there's a guy

1777
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:36,040
in 1850 who wrote a terrific translation

1778
01:10:40,020 --> 01:10:38,530
of Herodotus work fantastic let's get a

1779
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:40,030
copy of that book which we can do now

1780
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:42,220
thanks to the Internet Archive let's

1781
01:10:45,810 --> 01:10:43,810
find that book and read that and find

1782
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:45,820
where does that guy say he got his

1783
01:10:50,340 --> 01:10:47,890
original Herodotus if we follow this

1784
01:10:51,700 --> 01:10:50,350
process at the end of that line you'll

1785
01:10:54,180 --> 01:10:51,710
find people writing

1786
01:10:57,459 --> 01:10:54,190
maybe 200 years ago but they give no

1787
01:10:59,280 --> 01:10:57,469
source whatsoever for what they're

1788
01:11:02,439 --> 01:10:59,290
saying here is Otis wrote nothing

1789
01:11:04,660 --> 01:11:02,449
nothing at all I know how outrageous

1790
01:11:06,370 --> 01:11:04,670
that sounds but that's what I have

1791
01:11:08,820 --> 01:11:06,380
discovered by tracing through the

1792
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:08,830
sources that's where I'm at right now so

1793
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,570
you make a good point about English and

1794
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:12,800
Hebrew and Latin and these kinds of

1795
01:11:17,740 --> 01:11:15,650
things if someone says to me hey I've

1796
01:11:20,379 --> 01:11:17,750
got a copy what he read Otis wrote and

1797
01:11:23,229 --> 01:11:20,389
it is in his native language here you go

1798
01:11:25,300 --> 01:11:23,239
great I would love to see that but from

1799
01:11:27,459 --> 01:11:25,310
the research that I've done there is no

1800
01:11:30,010 --> 01:11:27,469
such thing the closest that we have are

1801
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:30,020
the Oxyrhynchus papyri which as I said

1802
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:32,570
earlier were discovered in Egypt in the

1803
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:35,810
late 1800s by a couple of fellows from

1804
01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:36,530
Oxford

1805
01:11:42,100 --> 01:11:38,239
which they claimed to have been written

1806
01:11:44,649 --> 01:11:42,110
by the original authors but they say was

1807
01:11:48,220 --> 01:11:44,659
found in a rubbish dump basically in an

1808
01:11:49,629 --> 01:11:48,230
empty area of Egypt okay so the closest

1809
01:11:51,910 --> 01:11:49,639
that we have to primary sources were

1810
01:11:52,300 --> 01:11:51,920
discovered 120 years ago in a rubbish

1811
01:11:54,610 --> 01:11:52,310
dump

1812
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:54,620
by to Oxford scholars in the meantime

1813
01:11:58,840 --> 01:11:56,090
all the stories we've got about here at

1814
01:12:00,640 --> 01:11:58,850
Otis they lead us to believe all these

1815
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:00,650
translations multi based on the original

1816
01:12:04,419 --> 01:12:02,449
but if we look through the sources of

1817
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:04,429
the translations they don't tell us what

1818
01:12:10,020 --> 01:12:06,650
they were translating from I mean this

1819
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:10,030
is a big deal Kraig head up with this

1820
01:12:14,890 --> 01:12:12,050
hopefully you and your audience can see

1821
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:14,900
why I think this is a big deal this is

1822
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:17,449
not a distraction this is not some kind

1823
01:12:22,390 --> 01:12:20,210
of put on that I'm doing to me this is a

1824
01:12:23,979 --> 01:12:22,400
big deal if we have been deceived about

1825
01:12:27,340 --> 01:12:23,989
what we think we know about ancient

1826
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:27,350
history that is a huge deal and it's

1827
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:29,090
instructive of the modern human

1828
01:12:33,270 --> 01:12:31,370
condition that so many of us can spend

1829
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:33,280
so many years believing these stories

1830
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:35,690
without spending so much as a single

1831
01:12:40,589 --> 01:12:39,050
afternoon checking the sources for those

1832
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:40,599
stories

1833
01:12:45,959 --> 01:12:43,510
fare and I do agree that this is a big

1834
01:12:48,540 --> 01:12:45,969
deal I mean that's why of the topics on

1835
01:12:52,109 --> 01:12:48,550
the table I wanted to focus on this

1836
01:12:54,569 --> 01:12:52,119
because history of course is relevant to

1837
01:12:57,330 --> 01:12:54,579
our lives and I also of course think

1838
01:13:00,479 --> 01:12:57,340
there are major deceptions in history I

1839
01:13:03,060 --> 01:13:00,489
think our only disagreement is scale and

1840
01:13:05,490 --> 01:13:03,070
if we were to talk about ancient Egypt a

1841
01:13:07,979 --> 01:13:05,500
bit more as an example like I look at

1842
01:13:09,689 --> 01:13:07,989
the work of John Anthony West or Robert

1843
01:13:11,370 --> 01:13:09,699
Schoch right I mean they're famous for

1844
01:13:13,530 --> 01:13:11,380
questioning the official narrative of

1845
01:13:15,569 --> 01:13:13,540
Egypt by pushing it back much farther

1846
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:15,579
and making a case that it was much more

1847
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:18,610
complex and exceptionally advanced in

1848
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:20,320
their cosmology and spiritual

1849
01:13:24,450 --> 01:13:22,239
understandings then it's typically

1850
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:24,460
presented and it was Robert Schoch who

1851
01:13:28,500 --> 01:13:26,560
really had no dog in the fight he's an

1852
01:13:31,140 --> 01:13:28,510
expert on weathering and he looked at

1853
01:13:33,180 --> 01:13:31,150
the Sphinx and said this damage on it is

1854
01:13:35,550 --> 01:13:33,190
clearly water erosion so then you take

1855
01:13:37,830 --> 01:13:35,560
the date back to when there was rain in

1856
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:37,840
the Egyptian desert again an assumption

1857
01:13:44,010 --> 01:13:40,719
and that puts the Sphinx way back even

1858
01:13:45,870 --> 01:13:44,020
before conventional history those are

1859
01:13:47,970 --> 01:13:45,880
kind of the ways I think the lies have

1860
01:13:50,990 --> 01:13:47,980
been told and where the truth might lie

1861
01:13:54,510 --> 01:13:51,000
but I guess you think guys like this are

1862
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:54,520
either part of the deception or working

1863
01:13:59,760 --> 01:13:57,250
on faulty premises themselves well I

1864
01:14:01,350 --> 01:13:59,770
don't want to speak about John Anthony

1865
01:14:03,089 --> 01:14:01,360
we're still Robert Schoch specifically I

1866
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:03,099
don't want to criticize or critique

1867
01:14:07,500 --> 01:14:04,960
their claims because I haven't engaged

1868
01:14:09,660 --> 01:14:07,510
with their work directly there what I

1869
01:14:12,959 --> 01:14:09,670
would ask you though is if you found

1870
01:14:15,419 --> 01:14:12,969
their work convincing can you recall any

1871
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:15,429
of the primary sources that they might

1872
01:14:19,470 --> 01:14:17,530
have had to put forward about the

1873
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:19,480
ancient characters of history or was

1874
01:14:23,129 --> 01:14:21,250
their work specifically about the

1875
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:23,139
erosion of the objects that we call the

1876
01:14:27,359 --> 01:14:25,090
pyramids and the Sphinx what were their

1877
01:14:30,510 --> 01:14:27,369
claims based on right and that's why I

1878
01:14:32,970 --> 01:14:30,520
chose this as an example because it is

1879
01:14:35,250 --> 01:14:32,980
just about the Sphinx it's about the

1880
01:14:37,530 --> 01:14:35,260
enclosure of the Sphinx and the markings

1881
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:37,540
that are on it because I guess the

1882
01:14:42,089 --> 01:14:40,210
assumption is the Western world stumbled

1883
01:14:44,939 --> 01:14:42,099
upon the shin they're like what is this

1884
01:14:47,700 --> 01:14:44,949
how far back does it go and conventional

1885
01:14:49,919 --> 01:14:47,710
Egyptology puts the stuff around 5,000

1886
01:14:54,149 --> 01:14:49,929
years old Robert Schoch looked at it as

1887
01:14:57,479 --> 01:14:54,159
a weather damage expert and said

1888
01:14:59,729 --> 01:14:57,489
actually this is water erosion which it

1889
01:15:01,140 --> 01:14:59,739
doesn't rain in Egypt like you think it

1890
01:15:03,029 --> 01:15:01,150
does you know what that means the desert

1891
01:15:05,609 --> 01:15:03,039
it doesn't rain like that now so for

1892
01:15:07,979 --> 01:15:05,619
this damage to have occurred there's an

1893
01:15:10,589 --> 01:15:07,989
assumption that there was actually a

1894
01:15:13,259 --> 01:15:10,599
river there that the Sphinx was near it

1895
01:15:14,879 --> 01:15:13,269
and that it was once lush and so you

1896
01:15:17,819 --> 01:15:14,889
have to take that back to something like

1897
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:17,829
12,000 years to get it into the right

1898
01:15:22,020 --> 01:15:20,409
place in which rain would be falling

1899
01:15:24,299 --> 01:15:22,030
there and so of course I'm you know a

1900
01:15:26,669 --> 01:15:24,309
lot of assumptions here but the point is

1901
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:26,679
that there are markings on the Sphinx

1902
01:15:32,790 --> 01:15:30,880
that got there somehow one expert who's

1903
01:15:35,279 --> 01:15:32,800
an alternative guy who the mainstream

1904
01:15:36,959 --> 01:15:35,289
has tried to shut down quite a bit and I

1905
01:15:38,580 --> 01:15:36,969
know they run they run counter

1906
01:15:40,949 --> 01:15:38,590
narratives to I wouldn't dismiss that

1907
01:15:43,979 --> 01:15:40,959
but he says this damage is done by water

1908
01:15:45,239 --> 01:15:43,989
erosion you move it back in history some

1909
01:15:47,549 --> 01:15:45,249
people would say it aligns with the

1910
01:15:50,339 --> 01:15:47,559
constellation Leo that originally had a

1911
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:50,349
lion said and some of these pieces start

1912
01:15:56,159 --> 01:15:53,530
to come together in an alternative way

1913
01:15:58,469 --> 01:15:56,169
that mainstream Egyptology dismisses so

1914
01:16:00,839 --> 01:15:58,479
they're fighting that narrative again

1915
01:16:02,790 --> 01:16:00,849
could be a counter narrative but that's

1916
01:16:06,299 --> 01:16:02,800
why I chose the example of the Sphinx as

1917
01:16:08,459 --> 01:16:06,309
erosion because it's kind of simple it

1918
01:16:10,620 --> 01:16:08,469
doesn't really require the tracing back

1919
01:16:12,270 --> 01:16:10,630
of documents and Scrolls that might have

1920
01:16:15,299 --> 01:16:12,280
disintegrated over time or something

1921
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:15,309
like that yeah I completely understand

1922
01:16:18,419 --> 01:16:16,570
this good example too because a lot of

1923
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:18,429
what I'm talking about has to do with

1924
01:16:22,919 --> 01:16:20,650
the sources in the terms of a literal

1925
01:16:24,899 --> 01:16:22,929
sense like what is the literary evidence

1926
01:16:27,810 --> 01:16:24,909
for what we think we know about history

1927
01:16:30,330 --> 01:16:27,820
so those things can be easily fabricated

1928
01:16:32,969 --> 01:16:30,340
in a person can claim that a piece of

1929
01:16:34,620 --> 01:16:32,979
papyri is 2,000 years old when really it

1930
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:34,630
might be significantly less than that

1931
01:16:40,020 --> 01:16:37,449
whereas some of these physical relics

1932
01:16:42,149 --> 01:16:40,030
such as the Sphinx or the pyramid well

1933
01:16:44,819 --> 01:16:42,159
how can you fake how old they are and

1934
01:16:48,330 --> 01:16:44,829
that is a terrific question I guess my

1935
01:16:50,189 --> 01:16:48,340
point would be what is our control if

1936
01:16:52,679 --> 01:16:50,199
you think about your typical way of

1937
01:16:54,060 --> 01:16:52,689
trying to measure something oftentimes

1938
01:16:57,060 --> 01:16:54,070
it's useful to have a control element

1939
01:16:59,520 --> 01:16:57,070
now in the case of the Sphinx you and I

1940
01:17:02,549 --> 01:16:59,530
don't have a 2,000 year lifespan to

1941
01:17:05,009 --> 01:17:02,559
build a Sphinx and then see how much

1942
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:05,019
does it a road in ten years or in 100

1943
01:17:07,980 --> 01:17:07,209
years or in 2,000 years right we don't

1944
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:07,990
have a way to

1945
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:11,050
test the see how quickly something like

1946
01:17:15,390 --> 01:17:13,600
that water Road so someone tells us that

1947
01:17:17,430 --> 01:17:15,400
the erosion that has happened to it is

1948
01:17:19,740 --> 01:17:17,440
the result of a hundred years or five

1949
01:17:22,410 --> 01:17:19,750
hundred years or 2,000 years or maybe

1950
01:17:24,180 --> 01:17:22,420
ten thousand years what do we compare

1951
01:17:25,950 --> 01:17:24,190
that to what can you or I compare that

1952
01:17:29,340 --> 01:17:25,960
to we can either take what they're

1953
01:17:31,290 --> 01:17:29,350
saying on faith or we can say well this

1954
01:17:33,630 --> 01:17:31,300
guy can't convince me because how long

1955
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:33,640
has he been observing the erosion I mean

1956
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:35,410
if he was to observe the erosion for ten

1957
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:39,250
years and notice for argument's sake X

1958
01:17:43,230 --> 01:17:40,930
millimeters of erosion at this

1959
01:17:45,180 --> 01:17:43,240
particular point in the object in ten

1960
01:17:46,740 --> 01:17:45,190
years then you could see how they can

1961
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:46,750
draw an inference they can extrapolate

1962
01:17:51,930 --> 01:17:48,730
from that well here's how far back we

1963
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:51,940
think the erosion goes now again I

1964
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:54,370
haven't dealt with John Anthony West or

1965
01:17:59,310 --> 01:17:56,650
Robert shox material so I don't know

1966
01:18:01,500 --> 01:17:59,320
what their method was for telling us

1967
01:18:03,570 --> 01:18:01,510
what the erosion reveals about the age

1968
01:18:05,070 --> 01:18:03,580
of the objects can you remember Greg

1969
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:05,080
when you were reading their work or when

1970
01:18:08,220 --> 01:18:06,130
you were interacting with their work

1971
01:18:10,260 --> 01:18:08,230
like did they present a method of that

1972
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:10,270
nature like how did they arrive at

1973
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:11,650
thousands of years what was the method

1974
01:18:17,340 --> 01:18:14,710
that they were employing well I think it

1975
01:18:20,220 --> 01:18:17,350
just relies on his general opinion as a

1976
01:18:22,860 --> 01:18:20,230
weathering expert it doesn't rely on any

1977
01:18:25,650 --> 01:18:22,870
dating except the presumptions about

1978
01:18:28,410 --> 01:18:25,660
climate and previous ages I think again

1979
01:18:30,270 --> 01:18:28,420
big assumptions but I always found that

1980
01:18:32,250 --> 01:18:30,280
alternative theory interesting and then

1981
01:18:33,930 --> 01:18:32,260
it gets into the size of the head being

1982
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:33,940
too small and if you take it back to

1983
01:18:38,370 --> 01:18:36,250
that time it would have better align

1984
01:18:40,470 --> 01:18:38,380
with the constellation Leo and that

1985
01:18:42,300 --> 01:18:40,480
would have made more sense I know that

1986
01:18:45,930 --> 01:18:42,310
makes some assumptions about the night

1987
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:45,940
sky too but I see a couple pieces coming

1988
01:18:50,300 --> 01:18:48,370
together in a way that makes sense and

1989
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:50,310
is very different from the mainstream

1990
01:18:55,410 --> 01:18:52,930
but regardless of that you have used

1991
01:18:56,670 --> 01:18:55,420
this term wire frame mesh a couple of

1992
01:18:58,290 --> 01:18:56,680
times and I know what you're talking

1993
01:19:01,140 --> 01:18:58,300
about because I've seen these pictures

1994
01:19:04,170 --> 01:19:01,150
online that look like black and white

1995
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:04,180
photos of people building the Sphinx or

1996
01:19:09,480 --> 01:19:06,850
a crane lifting Stonehenge into place

1997
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:09,490
and in the same way you can't trust the

1998
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:10,960
Chain of Custody with some of these

1999
01:19:15,690 --> 01:19:13,210
documents or the universities that study

2000
01:19:18,090 --> 01:19:15,700
this stuff I can't trust images like

2001
01:19:21,480 --> 01:19:18,100
that and the Photoshop age even though

2002
01:19:23,670 --> 01:19:21,490
they are interesting maybe these image

2003
01:19:25,290 --> 01:19:23,680
I'm talking about aligned with your view

2004
01:19:26,070 --> 01:19:25,300
but I don't want to put words in your

2005
01:19:28,350 --> 01:19:26,080
mouth so I guess I would just

2006
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:28,360
straight-up ask you do you think the

2007
01:19:33,150 --> 01:19:30,250
megalithic sites of the world are just

2008
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:33,160
recent inventions that were being lied

2009
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:36,250
to about well I'm definitely open-minded

2010
01:19:40,380 --> 01:19:37,810
to that possibility so if you look at

2011
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:40,390
the Sphinx for an example so if you ask

2012
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:42,370
official history well what do we know

2013
01:19:47,250 --> 01:19:44,560
about the Sphinx they'll tell you that

2014
01:19:51,450 --> 01:19:47,260
the first archeological dig of the

2015
01:19:53,220 --> 01:19:51,460
Sphinx took place in the early 1800s so

2016
01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:53,230
we're talking about 200 years ago

2017
01:20:00,060 --> 01:19:56,320
they'll tell you that it was a character

2018
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:00,070
named giovanni battista Poveglia who

2019
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:02,290
conducted the first archeological dig

2020
01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:04,810
that uncovered the Sphinx as we know it

2021
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:08,320
today 200 years ago so I would think is

2022
01:20:13,580 --> 01:20:10,650
it possible that this Sphinx is

2023
01:20:16,590 --> 01:20:13,590
thousands of years old and it just went

2024
01:20:18,510 --> 01:20:16,600
unknown buried the thousands of years

2025
01:20:20,730 --> 01:20:18,520
before was discovered I would say yes

2026
01:20:22,590 --> 01:20:20,740
that is possible why not is it also

2027
01:20:25,410 --> 01:20:22,600
possible that a couple hundred years ago

2028
01:20:28,020 --> 01:20:25,420
there were some people who either played

2029
01:20:29,730 --> 01:20:28,030
an elaborate prank or perform some kind

2030
01:20:32,100 --> 01:20:29,740
of elaborate hoax for their own ends

2031
01:20:34,230 --> 01:20:32,110
whether to deceive people or to make

2032
01:20:36,060 --> 01:20:34,240
money for a tourist venture or whatever

2033
01:20:37,020 --> 01:20:36,070
the case might be is it possible that

2034
01:20:39,150 --> 01:20:37,030
200 years ago

2035
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:39,160
they carved something out of stone

2036
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:41,920
themselves and told the world that it

2037
01:20:45,180 --> 01:20:43,090
was thousands of years old is that

2038
01:20:46,860 --> 01:20:45,190
possible and I would say yes of course

2039
01:20:49,020 --> 01:20:46,870
that's possible so we've got a few

2040
01:20:52,230 --> 01:20:49,030
different possibilities here now at that

2041
01:20:54,450 --> 01:20:52,240
point the average person feels too busy

2042
01:20:57,600 --> 01:20:54,460
or they don't feel that they've got the

2043
01:20:59,610 --> 01:20:57,610
technical expertise to look into the

2044
01:21:01,560 --> 01:20:59,620
matter for themselves they're gonna want

2045
01:21:04,410 --> 01:21:01,570
an authority figure to give them a

2046
01:21:06,300 --> 01:21:04,420
narrative about the Sphinx so there will

2047
01:21:09,270 --> 01:21:06,310
be some people who will say well the

2048
01:21:11,100 --> 01:21:09,280
official experts say that it's X number

2049
01:21:12,780 --> 01:21:11,110
of thousand years old that's what I'm

2050
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:12,790
gonna go with they'll be other people

2051
01:21:16,110 --> 01:21:13,930
who'll say no no there's these

2052
01:21:17,820 --> 01:21:16,120
alternative researchers who claim that

2053
01:21:20,010 --> 01:21:17,830
it goes back even further than that

2054
01:21:21,930 --> 01:21:20,020
maybe ten thousand years old or fifteen

2055
01:21:24,540 --> 01:21:21,940
thousand years old that's the narrative

2056
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:24,550
that I'm gonna go with then perhaps

2057
01:21:29,100 --> 01:21:26,530
sadly there are some people on YouTube

2058
01:21:32,130 --> 01:21:29,110
who will say no no my favorite photo

2059
01:21:35,010 --> 01:21:32,140
that says that the Sphinx was built by

2060
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:35,020
hand 200 years ago I'm going to go

2061
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:37,090
that right not because they've done

2062
01:21:40,830 --> 01:21:38,800
their own research but because that fits

2063
01:21:42,750 --> 01:21:40,840
in with their narrative so people are

2064
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:42,760
naturally going to follow whichever

2065
01:21:47,370 --> 01:21:45,130
explanation for this relic of history

2066
01:21:49,110 --> 01:21:47,380
they're going to follow whichever one

2067
01:21:51,060 --> 01:21:49,120
fits in with their preconceived notions

2068
01:21:52,860 --> 01:21:51,070
the most and going back to what I was

2069
01:21:56,430 --> 01:21:52,870
saying earlier I don't have a problem

2070
01:21:57,960 --> 01:21:56,440
with that someone says to me that they

2071
01:21:59,940 --> 01:21:57,970
want to believe or they would prefer to

2072
01:22:01,860 --> 01:21:59,950
believe or that it just feels right for

2073
01:22:03,570 --> 01:22:01,870
them that the Sphinx is ten thousand

2074
01:22:05,970 --> 01:22:03,580
years old or five thousand years old or

2075
01:22:08,130 --> 01:22:05,980
whatever the case might be I'm totally

2076
01:22:11,070 --> 01:22:08,140
cool with that but for me all I can go

2077
01:22:12,660 --> 01:22:11,080
with is the evidence and the only

2078
01:22:16,170 --> 01:22:12,670
evidence I've got is that this thing

2079
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:16,180
exists it was discovered 200 years ago

2080
01:22:20,220 --> 01:22:18,130
even according to the mainstream account

2081
01:22:23,430 --> 01:22:20,230
that's when it was discovered 200 years

2082
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:23,440
ago and knowing what I know about how

2083
01:22:28,230 --> 01:22:25,810
some humans love deceiving others how

2084
01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:28,240
they love to pull off hoaxes they love

2085
01:22:32,100 --> 01:22:29,440
to pretend that they've got this

2086
01:22:34,050 --> 01:22:32,110
Piltdown man that proves evolution or

2087
01:22:35,610 --> 01:22:34,060
whatever the case might be knowing what

2088
01:22:37,530 --> 01:22:35,620
I know about humans how much some of

2089
01:22:39,750 --> 01:22:37,540
them love to deceive others and how

2090
01:22:42,990 --> 01:22:39,760
easily the rest of them are deceived I

2091
01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:43,000
can't help but infer that maybe maybe

2092
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:44,500
the Sphinx was created a couple of years

2093
01:22:48,150 --> 01:22:46,210
ago but I don't know I'm not saying that

2094
01:22:51,060 --> 01:22:48,160
this is the case I'm saying that I don't

2095
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:51,070
know but I'm not going to believe that

2096
01:22:57,180 --> 01:22:53,650
it's thousands of years old just because

2097
01:22:59,460 --> 01:22:57,190
that fits in with other beliefs that's

2098
01:23:01,350 --> 01:22:59,470
not the way that I interact with the

2099
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:01,360
world around me but I hope I'm making

2100
01:23:05,130 --> 01:23:02,770
sense they're great I hope you gara I'm

2101
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:05,140
coming from it's like if someone wants

2102
01:23:07,380 --> 01:23:06,910
do believe that the Sphinx is thousands

2103
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:07,390
of years old

2104
01:23:12,060 --> 01:23:10,090
I say that's totally cool all I'm saying

2105
01:23:14,250 --> 01:23:12,070
is that the evidence that we've got the

2106
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:14,260
empirical evidence well all we really

2107
01:23:18,540 --> 01:23:16,960
got is the Sphinx and if someone says

2108
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:18,550
over the roads over a certain time great

2109
01:23:22,590 --> 01:23:20,410
show me your control show me a method

2110
01:23:24,630 --> 01:23:22,600
show me how you've shown that that

2111
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:24,640
particular material erodes at that rate

2112
01:23:28,620 --> 01:23:26,890
over time I'm happy to look but in the

2113
01:23:30,900 --> 01:23:28,630
absence of all of that all we have is

2114
01:23:34,110 --> 01:23:30,910
claims and conjecture for something

2115
01:23:36,690 --> 01:23:34,120
which even the official story admits was

2116
01:23:39,930 --> 01:23:36,700
only discovered 200 years ago that's

2117
01:23:42,510 --> 01:23:39,940
fair and Robert shocks not Jesus and you

2118
01:23:44,430 --> 01:23:42,520
know he could be absolutely wrong I

2119
01:23:47,070 --> 01:23:44,440
don't know it's a difficult thing

2120
01:23:48,730 --> 01:23:47,080
because I am with you in terms of there

2121
01:23:51,670 --> 01:23:48,740
being so many deceptions

2122
01:23:53,890 --> 01:23:51,680
in the past and it's really hard to

2123
01:23:57,370 --> 01:23:53,900
parse out where the truth may lie and

2124
01:24:00,610 --> 01:23:57,380
I'm not religious about any of my ideas

2125
01:24:02,470 --> 01:24:00,620
or where I plant my flag I generally go

2126
01:24:05,170 --> 01:24:02,480
against the mainstream narrative and

2127
01:24:08,230 --> 01:24:05,180
find something else in material that's

2128
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:08,240
based on something that makes sense to

2129
01:24:12,430 --> 01:24:10,130
me and it is a go with your gut type of

2130
01:24:13,900 --> 01:24:12,440
thing because you know with what you

2131
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:13,910
just said you kind of put us in a box

2132
01:24:19,180 --> 01:24:16,610
where if something is a thousand years

2133
01:24:21,550 --> 01:24:19,190
old and it works both ways - because how

2134
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:21,560
can Robert Schoch be so sure that this

2135
01:24:26,350 --> 01:24:24,650
is water erosion that happened over the

2136
01:24:28,660 --> 01:24:26,360
span of lifetimes when you only have one

2137
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:28,670
lifetime with which to examine things

2138
01:24:34,210 --> 01:24:32,090
but that's kind of a catch-22 as well

2139
01:24:34,780 --> 01:24:34,220
because then if something is a thousand

2140
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:34,790
years old

2141
01:24:39,730 --> 01:24:37,850
you can't know it I guess well it's

2142
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:39,740
difficult to know so all we can do is

2143
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:43,010
draw inferences okay so I'm sure if you

2144
01:24:47,250 --> 01:24:44,930
were to speak with John Anthony West or

2145
01:24:49,210 --> 01:24:47,260
Robert Schoch I'm sure that if they were

2146
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:49,220
intellectually honest people and I

2147
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:51,050
imagine they are they would say well I

2148
01:24:57,250 --> 01:24:53,840
don't know how old it is but my research

2149
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:57,260
or my beliefs lead me to the inference

2150
01:25:00,580 --> 01:24:59,120
that it's thousands of thousands of

2151
01:25:02,770 --> 01:25:00,590
years old I'm sure they would be

2152
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:02,780
forthright about that that the best they

2153
01:25:06,220 --> 01:25:04,250
can do is draw inferences from the

2154
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:06,230
evidence which is all that any of us can

2155
01:25:11,260 --> 01:25:09,050
do and so if the inference that they

2156
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:11,270
draw leads them to many thousands of

2157
01:25:14,860 --> 01:25:13,370
years old again that's totally cool with

2158
01:25:17,350 --> 01:25:14,870
me the point that I would make though is

2159
01:25:19,540 --> 01:25:17,360
that even according to the official

2160
01:25:21,790 --> 01:25:19,550
narrative the Sphinx has been restored

2161
01:25:23,740 --> 01:25:21,800
so the Sphinx that you see if you go to

2162
01:25:26,170 --> 01:25:23,750
Egypt you're not even looking at the

2163
01:25:29,170 --> 01:25:26,180
Sphinx as it was discovered let alone as

2164
01:25:31,390 --> 01:25:29,180
it was supposedly built so even the

2165
01:25:33,610 --> 01:25:31,400
empirical evidence that direct line of

2166
01:25:36,370 --> 01:25:33,620
sight that you can have of the Sphinx if

2167
01:25:39,820 --> 01:25:36,380
you go and visit even that what you're

2168
01:25:42,190 --> 01:25:39,830
looking at is a modern version of what

2169
01:25:44,710 --> 01:25:42,200
was allegedly there thousands of years

2170
01:25:47,110 --> 01:25:44,720
ago and I suppose if I can make a point

2171
01:25:49,090 --> 01:25:47,120
on that I mentioned earlier that when I

2172
01:25:51,340 --> 01:25:49,100
was a child I loved the TV show Stargate

2173
01:25:54,130 --> 01:25:51,350
and that a lot of the Stargate narrative

2174
01:25:58,090 --> 01:25:54,140
is based around the narratives that we

2175
01:25:59,890 --> 01:25:58,100
have of ancient Egypt and it seems to me

2176
01:26:01,870 --> 01:25:59,900
the more research that I do and the more

2177
01:26:02,730 --> 01:26:01,880
that I look into the official stories of

2178
01:26:04,740 --> 01:26:02,740
things

2179
01:26:06,750 --> 01:26:04,750
it seems to me as though there's a lot

2180
01:26:09,180 --> 01:26:06,760
of myths that are built on top of myths

2181
01:26:10,860 --> 01:26:09,190
that are built on top of myths or there

2182
01:26:12,570 --> 01:26:10,870
are narratives that are built on top of

2183
01:26:15,810 --> 01:26:12,580
narratives that are built on top of

2184
01:26:17,940 --> 01:26:15,820
narratives so to give one example I know

2185
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:17,950
somebody very well and he's a really

2186
01:26:22,110 --> 01:26:20,410
cool guy I love the guy actually is one

2187
01:26:25,170 --> 01:26:22,120
of the most important people in my life

2188
01:26:26,730 --> 01:26:25,180
that I've had on this journey so far in

2189
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:26,740
my life someone who has been there to

2190
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:28,930
support me doing things that I think are

2191
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:31,450
worth doing trying to improve my life

2192
01:26:35,310 --> 01:26:33,610
and improve the life of people around me

2193
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:35,320
this guy has done more to support me

2194
01:26:40,770 --> 01:26:37,810
than most people he happens to believe

2195
01:26:42,930 --> 01:26:40,780
in ancient aliens he happens to believe

2196
01:26:46,100 --> 01:26:42,940
in the narrative that the ancient

2197
01:26:47,340 --> 01:26:46,110
civilizations had direct contact with

2198
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:47,350
extraterrestrials

2199
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:49,840
you know the whole Dogon tribe from East

2200
01:26:53,700 --> 01:26:51,850
Africa this idea that they knew about

2201
01:26:55,260 --> 01:26:53,710
Sirius and all this kind of thing right

2202
01:26:58,860 --> 01:26:55,270
those are the narratives that he

2203
01:27:00,750 --> 01:26:58,870
personally believes him and I think a

2204
01:27:02,370 --> 01:27:00,760
couple of years ago when I was maybe

2205
01:27:04,650 --> 01:27:02,380
being a little bit self-righteous with

2206
01:27:06,780 --> 01:27:04,660
my skepticism I think I didn't

2207
01:27:08,910 --> 01:27:06,790
appreciate that that was how he made

2208
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:08,920
sense of the world around us and that

2209
01:27:12,780 --> 01:27:10,930
was something that he enjoyed reading

2210
01:27:15,180 --> 01:27:12,790
the books about I think he even went to

2211
01:27:16,860 --> 01:27:15,190
a von Daniken lecture in von Daniken

2212
01:27:17,820 --> 01:27:16,870
came to Australia or one of these sort

2213
01:27:20,810 --> 01:27:17,830
of well-known people who talked about

2214
01:27:23,190 --> 01:27:20,820
these topics and rather than be

2215
01:27:25,380 --> 01:27:23,200
supportive of the fact that this story

2216
01:27:26,910 --> 01:27:25,390
was important to him I think I was too

2217
01:27:28,500 --> 01:27:26,920
skeptical in the sense that I said to

2218
01:27:30,210 --> 01:27:28,510
him well what's the evidence for this

2219
01:27:32,220 --> 01:27:30,220
what's the evidence for this at the time

2220
01:27:35,490 --> 01:27:32,230
I didn't appreciate the importance of

2221
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:35,500
stories to humans and so right now we're

2222
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:37,210
in a situation where a large part of

2223
01:27:41,250 --> 01:27:39,610
conspiracy culture and I like that spin

2224
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:41,260
by the way I got conspiracy culture from

2225
01:27:43,740 --> 01:27:42,370
you I used to just call it the

2226
01:27:45,450 --> 01:27:43,750
alternative realm or these kinds of